APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released GRIPE
list Robert P McGraw
I apologize for vetting my frustration to the group. This was not very professional and basically I was doing what I was protesting. My comment on the wiki FAQ was in no way meant to degrade the effort and quality work that went into this. Again I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing. Robert Robert P. McGraw, Jr. Manager, Computer System EMAIL: user-33cf07af04dd@xymon.invalid Purdue University ROOM: MATH-807 Department of Mathematics PHONE: (XXX) XXX-XXXX XXX N. University Street West Lafayette, IN XXXXX-XXXX
list Henrik Størner
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On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:33:29AM -0500, McGraw, Robert P wrote:
I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing.
Apology accepted. I *know* it's frustrating to wait, especially when noone can tell you just how long the wait will be. But trust me - it is also frustrating to me that I cannot find enough time to get this release done. It's getting closer, but not as fast as I'd like. So please bear with me for a little longer. Regards, Henrik
list Larry Barber
Yes, much better to wait until the product is actually ready to be shipped than to ship it according to a schedule that some idiot marketeer came up with 2 years ago. This is one of the nice things about open source software, it is the programmers who decide when something is going to ship. Thanks, Larry Barber
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On Feb 12, 2008 3:39 PM, Henrik Stoerner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:33:29AM -0500, McGraw, Robert P wrote:I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing.Apology accepted. I *know* it's frustrating to wait, especially when noone can tell you just how long the wait will be. But trust me - it is also frustrating to me that I cannot find enough time to get this release done. It's getting closer, but not as fast as I'd like. So please bear with me for a little longer. Regards, Henrik
list Josh Luthman
Here is the way I look at it. I am simply swamped with work. An update to Hobbit is like a teaser - I can't update it until I'm caught up but I really want to do it now =( With no update to look forward to installing, I don't have to worry about being distracted with a cool new "toy".
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On 2/12/08, Larry Barber <user-6ef9c2864140@xymon.invalid> wrote:Yes, much better to wait until the product is actually ready to be shipped than to ship it according to a schedule that some idiot marketeer came up with 2 years ago. This is one of the nice things about open source software, it is the programmers who decide when something is going to ship. Thanks, Larry Barber On Feb 12, 2008 3:39 PM, Henrik Stoerner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:33:29AM -0500, McGraw, Robert P wrote:I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing.Apology accepted. I *know* it's frustrating to wait, especially when noone can tell you just how long the wait will be. But trust me - it is also frustrating to me that I cannot find enough time to get this release done. It's getting closer, but not as fast as I'd like. So please bear with me for a little longer. Regards, Henrik
--
Josh Luthman
Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Direct: XXX-XXX-XXXX
XXXX Wayne St
Suite XXXX
Troy, OH XXXXX
Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer
list Jim Smith
I'm still running Hobbit 4.2.0 and am very pleased with it. Just my two cents' worth! Jim Smith Little Rock, AR From: Josh Luthman [mailto:user-4c45a83f15cb@xymon.invalid] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:17 PM To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid Subject: Re: [hobbit] APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released GRIPE
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Here is the way I look at it. I am simply swamped with work. An update
to Hobbit is like a teaser - I can't update it until I'm caught up but I
really want to do it now =(
With no update to look forward to installing, I don't have to worry
about being distracted with a cool new "toy".
On 2/12/08, Larry Barber <user-6ef9c2864140@xymon.invalid> wrote:
Yes, much better to wait until the product is actually ready to be
shipped than to ship it according to a schedule that some idiot
marketeer came up with 2 years ago. This is one of the nice things about
open source software, it is the programmers who decide when something is
going to ship.
Thanks,
Larry Barber
On Feb 12, 2008 3:39 PM, Henrik Stoerner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:33:29AM -0500, McGraw, Robert P wrote:I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing.
Apology accepted. I *know* it's frustrating to wait, especially when noone can tell you just how long the wait will be. But trust me - it is also frustrating to me that I cannot find enough time to get this release done. It's getting closer, but not as fast as I'd like. So please bear with me for a little longer. Regards, Henrik -- Josh Luthman Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX Direct: XXX-XXX-XXXX XXXX Wayne St Suite XXXX Troy, OH XXXXX Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer
NOTICE: This email contains confidential or proprietary information which may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the named recipient(s). If an addressing error has misdirected the email, please notify the author by replying to this message. If you are not the named recipient, you are not authorized to use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this email, and should immediately delete it from your computer system.
list Josh Luthman
Works very well for me minus one glitch/bug. Still, new versions, new toys and new gadgets are always desired :)
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On 2/12/08, Smith, Jim <user-dc30f243a817@xymon.invalid> wrote:I'm still running Hobbit 4.2.0 and am very pleased with it. Just my two cents' worth! Jim Smith Little Rock, AR From: Josh Luthman [mailto:user-4c45a83f15cb@xymon.invalid] Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2008 4:17 PM To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid Subject: Re: [hobbit] APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released GRIPE Here is the way I look at it. I am simply swamped with work. An update to Hobbit is like a teaser - I can't update it until I'm caught up but I really want to do it now =( With no update to look forward to installing, I don't have to worry about being distracted with a cool new "toy". On 2/12/08, Larry Barber <user-6ef9c2864140@xymon.invalid> wrote: Yes, much better to wait until the product is actually ready to be shipped than to ship it according to a schedule that some idiot marketeer came up with 2 years ago. This is one of the nice things about open source software, it is the programmers who decide when something is going to ship. Thanks, Larry Barber On Feb 12, 2008 3:39 PM, Henrik Stoerner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote: On Tue, Feb 12, 2008 at 11:33:29AM -0500, McGraw, Robert P wrote:I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing.Apology accepted. I *know* it's frustrating to wait, especially when noone can tell you just how long the wait will be. But trust me - it is also frustrating to me that I cannot find enough time to get this release done. It's getting closer, but not as fast as I'd like. So please bear with me for a little longer. Regards, Henrik -- Josh Luthman Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX Direct: XXX-XXX-XXXX XXXX Wayne St Suite XXXX Troy, OH XXXXX Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer NOTICE: This email contains confidential or proprietary information which may be legally privileged. It is intended only for the named recipient(s). If an addressing error has misdirected the email, please notify the author by replying to this message. If you are not the named recipient, you are not authorized to use, disclose, distribute, copy, print or rely on this email, and should immediately delete it from your computer system.
-- Josh Luthman Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX Direct: XXX-XXX-XXXX XXXX Wayne St Suite XXXX Troy, OH XXXXX Those who don't understand UNIX are condemned to reinvent it, poorly. --- Henry Spencer
list Vernon Everett
I wrote that entry in the wiki.
They are my words, not Henrik's, or T.J's. (T.J. merely cut and pasted
it into the wiki on my behalf)
But I am tough, and ignore verbal abuse well, so get angry with me if
you wish, not the list.
Having worked with other open source developers, and been a developer
myself, I realise that most open source work is often thankless, and
takes up a lot time you would otherwise spend doing stuff with the
family, socialising with friends, or generally enjoying yourself.
The question is akin to the kids in the back seat, going "Are we there
yet?" every minute or so on a long trip.
Frustrating, and eventually annoying.
Henrik could give us a date.
Hang on, let me bend over, reach back.....I got one. Pulled it out of my
@r5e, but how about next Friday?
Let's say Henrik does that, and then his real work - the stuff that pays
for the roof over his head - takes up too much of his time, and he
doesn't get to work on Hobbit for a week or two.
Or perhaps his best friend comes to town for a week.
Now what?
Do we get what he's got, and have to live with crap like the big
corporates do to us, or does he say, "Sorry guys, maybe next week."
Lots of bugs, or too many of those "maybe next week" lines, and user
confidence starts eroding.
I believe the wiki entry should stay.
We will get there, when we get there.
Under the circumstances, I believe Henrik is doing an excellent job, and
has produced a truly fine product.
We are all eagerly (and sometimes impatiently) waiting for the next
version but I would hate to see the quality slip for the sake of meeting
an arbitrary deadline.
And I am sure most would agree with me there.
Remember the IT mantra.
Cheap, Good, Fast. Pick any two.
Let me also commend Robert.
You were big enough to apologise in an open forum.
I have seen too many forums choke on their own bile, for lack of a
simple apology.
Apology accepted. I apologise if the entry was not interpreted in the
spirit in which it was written.
I believe the entry should stay, but I am open to an improvement in the
wording.
Any offers?
I would love to see a delivery date as much as the next guy, but with
FOSS developers working in their spare time, it's just not possible.
Regards
Vernon
P.S. The question was one of 33 FAQ entries I created based on questions
asked and answered on the list during November 2007.
If anybody is interested in doing the same for any other month, let me
know.
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-----Original Message-----
From: McGraw, Robert P [mailto:user-33cf07af04dd@xymon.invalid]
Sent: Wednesday, 13 February 2008 1:33 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: [hobbit] APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released
GRIPE
I apologize for vetting my frustration to the group. This was not very
professional and basically I was doing what I was protesting.
My comment on the wiki FAQ was in no way meant to degrade the effort and
quality work that went into this.
Again I apologize. I have to learn to count to 10 before typing.
Robert
Robert P. McGraw, Jr.
Manager, Computer System EMAIL: user-33cf07af04dd@xymon.invalid
Purdue University ROOM: MATH-807
Department of Mathematics PHONE: (XXX) XXX-XXXX
XXX N. University Street
West Lafayette, IN XXXXX-XXXX
NOTICE: This email and any attachments are confidential.
They may contain legally privileged information or
copyright material. You must not read, copy, use or
disclose them without authorisation. If you are not an
intended recipient, please contact us at once by return
email and then delete both messages and all attachments.
list Buchan Milne
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On Wednesday 13 February 2008 02:37:11 Everett, Vernon wrote:
The question is akin to the kids in the back seat, going "Are we there yet?" every minute or so on a long trip.
It may be better to amend the FAQ entry with this analogy ... as PHBs will probably understand it better ... Regards, Buchan
list Phil Wild
In my opinion... the wording in the FAQ is harsh. I thought the response to the original post was harsh but as part of the original post it could possibly be taken in context but not so much in the FAQ. Why be rude? some one has gone to the trouble of reading the FAQ instead of/before posting so we should be polite and helpful ;-). Anyone care to improve on: ----START---- Hobbit is under active development but a release date for the next version has not been announced. The current development snapshot is available for download from sourceforge if required. If you are chasing a specific bug fix or feature not currently available within the existing production release, please search the archive and/or post a query to the general discussion mailing list to see if there is a solution available. You can subscribe to the list by sending an e-mail to user-893db75bb8de@xymon.invalid. A searchable archive of the list is available at http://www.hswn.dk/hobbiton/ Please subscribe to the hobbit announcement list to be notified of the release of new versions. You can subscribe to the list by sending an e-mail to user-7164a4496079@xymon.invalid<http://hobbitmon.sourceforge.net/user-7164a4496079@xymon.invalid>; . ----END---- Cheers Phil
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On 13/02/2008, Buchan Milne <user-9b139aff4dec@xymon.invalid> wrote:On Wednesday 13 February 2008 02:37:11 Everett, Vernon wrote:The question is akin to the kids in the back seat, going "Are we there yet?" every minute or so on a long trip.It may be better to amend the FAQ entry with this analogy ... as PHBs will probably understand it better ... Regards, Buchan
--
Tel: XXXX XXX XXX
Fax: XXXX XXX XXX
email: user-e365c1418192@xymon.invalid
list T.J. Yang
I updated the FAQ entry with following answer.
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From: Phil Wild Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:36 AM To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid Subject: Re: [hobbit] APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released GRIPE In my opinion... the wording in the FAQ is harsh. I thought the response to the original post was harsh but as part of the original post it could possibly be taken in context but not so much in the FAQ. Why be rude? some one has gone to the trouble of reading the FAQ instead of/before posting so we should be polite and helpful ;-). Anyone care to improve on: ----START---- Hobbit is under active development but a release date for the next version has not been announced. The current development snapshot is available for download from sourceforge if required. If you are chasing a specific bug fix or feature not currently available within the existing production release, please search the archive and/or post a query to the general discussion mailing list to see if there is a solution available. You can subscribe to the list by sending an e-mail to user-893db75bb8de@xymon.invalid. A searchable archive of the list is available at http://www.hswn.dk/hobbiton/
Please subscribe to the hobbit announcement list to be notified of the release of new versions. You can subscribe to the list by sending an e-mail to user-7164a4496079@xymon.invalid.
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----END----
Cheers
Phil
On 13/02/2008, Buchan Milne <user-9b139aff4dec@xymon.invalid> wrote:
On Wednesday 13 February 2008 02:37:11 Everett, Vernon wrote:The question is akin to the kids in the back seat, going "Are we there yet?" every minute or so on a long trip.
It may be better to amend the FAQ entry with this analogy ... as PHBs will probably understand it better ... Regards, Buchan -- Tel: XXXX XXX XXX Fax: XXXX XXX XXX email: user-e365c1418192@xymon.invalid
list T.J. Yang
Oops this mail went out of my email client too soon. I updated the FAQ entry with following answer but added first sentence and last one. please take a look, if anyone don't like it please update it. remember it is a wiki that is opened for team editing. the hobbit developer url link may not be accurate, if I missed you (hobbit developer) please correct. http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/System_Monitoring_with_Hobbit/Developer_Guide#Developer_Who_is_who tj
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From: T.J. Yang Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 5:20 AM To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid Subject: Re: [hobbit] APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released GRIPE I updated the FAQ entry with following answer. From: Phil Wild Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 2:36 AM To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid Subject: Re: [hobbit] APOLOGY - When is the next hobbit going to be released GRIPE In my opinion... the wording in the FAQ is harsh. I thought the response to the original post was harsh but as part of the original post it could possibly be taken in context but not so much in the FAQ. Why be rude? some one has gone to the trouble of reading the FAQ instead of/before posting so we should be polite and helpful ;-). Anyone care to improve on: ----START---- Hobbit is under active development but a release date for the next version has not been announced. The current development snapshot is available for download from sourceforge if required. If you are chasing a specific bug fix or feature not currently available within the existing production release, please search the archive and/or post a query to the general discussion mailing list to see if there is a solution available. You can subscribe to the list by sending an e-mail to user-893db75bb8de@xymon.invalid. A searchable archive of the list is available at http://www.hswn.dk/hobbiton/ Please subscribe to the hobbit announcement list to be notified of the release of new versions. You can subscribe to the list by sending an e-mail to user-7164a4496079@xymon.invalid. ----END---- Cheers Phil On 13/02/2008, Buchan Milne <user-9b139aff4dec@xymon.invalid> wrote: On Wednesday 13 February 2008 02:37:11 Everett, Vernon wrote:
The question is akin to the kids in the back seat, going "Are we there yet?" every minute or so on a long trip.
It may be better to amend the FAQ entry with this analogy ... as PHBs will probably understand it better ... Regards, Buchan -- Tel: XXXX XXX XXX Fax: XXXX XXX XXX email: user-e365c1418192@xymon.invalid