Xymon Mailing List Archive search

Memory check

12 messages in this thread

list David Gilmore · Tue, 7 Feb 2006 19:41:23 -0500 ·
My hobbit server (Fedora FC4) has 1.25 gig of memory installed.  When the
server is backed, up using Retrospect client, REAL memory usage spikes from
34% to 97% and stays at that level until a reboot.  When I check the system
performance, using the built in system monitor, user memory is at 18.9%.
Dell Open Manage is using the most memory at 3% with a few additional
processes between 1% and 2%.  Everything else is well under 1%.  What
exactly is hobbit reporting on when it says that Physical/Real memory is at
97%, Actual memory is at 17%, and Swap is at 0%?
 
Thanks,
 
David Gilmore
Consultant
Stenhouse Consulting, LLC.
X Traverse St
Providence, RI   XXXXX
XXX.XXX.XXXX
XXX.XXX.XXXX (fax)
list Ralph Mitchell · Tue, 7 Feb 2006 21:12:24 -0600 ·
I'm not sure on the details, but I believe the Linux kernel loads up a
large percentage of available memory with disk buffers as files are
read.  Those buffers don't really count against any process and will
be evicted as soon as an actual process asks for real memory.  The
idea is that it speeds up disk access for those files that are in
memory, and doesn't cost much (in machine time) to keep them around
until the space is needed for something else.

Memory usage spikes during a backup because it's reading *all* the
files on disk...

Ralph Mitchell
quoted from David Gilmore


On 2/7/06, David Gilmore <user-70507ff7198d@xymon.invalid> wrote:
My hobbit server (Fedora FC4) has 1.25 gig of memory installed.  When the
server is backed, up using Retrospect client, REAL memory usage spikes from
34% to 97% and stays at that level until a reboot.  When I check the system
performance, using the built in system monitor, user memory is at 18.9%.
Dell Open Manage is using the most memory at 3% with a few additional
processes between 1% and 2%.  Everything else is well under 1%.  What
exactly is hobbit reporting on when it says that Physical/Real memory is at
97%, Actual memory is at 17%, and Swap is at 0%?

Thanks,

David Gilmore
Consultant
Stenhouse Consulting, LLC.
X Traverse St
Providence, RI   XXXXX
XXX.XXX.XXXX
XXX.XXX.XXXX (fax)
list Henrik Størner · Wed, 8 Feb 2006 07:45:04 +0100 ·
quoted from David Gilmore
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 07:41:23PM -0500, David Gilmore wrote:
My hobbit server (Fedora FC4) has 1.25 gig of memory installed.  When the
server is backed, up using Retrospect client, REAL memory usage spikes from
34% to 97% and stays at that level until a reboot.  When I check the system
performance, using the built in system monitor, user memory is at 18.9%.
Dell Open Manage is using the most memory at 3% with a few additional
processes between 1% and 2%.  Everything else is well under 1%.  What
exactly is hobbit reporting on when it says that Physical/Real memory is at
97%, Actual memory is at 17%, and Swap is at 0%?
Hobbit reports the output from the "free" command. It probably looks
somewhat like this after you've run a backup:

             total       used       free     shared    buffers cached
Mem:        646432     642172       4260          0     167676 136068
-/+ buffers/cache:     338428     308004
Swap:       511992          4     511988

The "Mem" line here tells you that there is 640 MB RAM installed, and
all except 4 MB is being "used". However, a lot of that is used for
"buffers" and "cache", which is the Linux kernel's dynamically resized
disk cache; if an application needs more RAM that is "free", the
disk cache/buffers are discarded and the memory made available to the 
application.

So that's why the "-/+ buffers/cache" line is interesting: This shows 
the used/free memory count if the buffers/cached is counted as "free"
memory. Hobbit report this as the "actual" memory count.

So a Linux system will practically always have a REAL memory usage
close to 100% (Linus Torvalds once said that "unused RAM is *wasted*
RAM, and there's no reason to spend lots of money on something that
isn't used" - quoting from memory). The ACTUAL memory usage (should)
be a lot less, and is what you'll want to keep an eye on.


Regards,
Henrik
list Rolf Schrittenlocher · Wed, 08 Feb 2006 08:34:21 +0100 ·
Hi,
quoted from David Gilmore
On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 07:41:23PM -0500, David Gilmore wrote:
 
My hobbit server (Fedora FC4) has 1.25 gig of memory installed.  When the
server is backed, up using Retrospect client, REAL memory usage spikes from
34% to 97% and stays at that level until a reboot.  When I check the system
performance, using the built in system monitor, user memory is at 18.9%.
Dell Open Manage is using the most memory at 3% with a few additional
processes between 1% and 2%.  Everything else is well under 1%.  What
exactly is hobbit reporting on when it says that Physical/Real memory is at
97%, Actual memory is at 17%, and Swap is at 0%?
   
Hobbit reports the output from the "free" command. It probably looks
somewhat like this after you've run a backup:

            total       used       free     shared    buffers cached
Mem:        646432     642172       4260          0     167676 136068
-/+ buffers/cache:     338428     308004
Swap:       511992          4     511988

The "Mem" line here tells you that there is 640 MB RAM installed, and
all except 4 MB is being "used". However, a lot of that is used for
"buffers" and "cache", which is the Linux kernel's dynamically resized
disk cache; if an application needs more RAM that is "free", the
disk cache/buffers are discarded and the memory made available to the 
application.

So that's why the "-/+ buffers/cache" line is interesting: This shows 
the used/free memory count if the buffers/cached is counted as "free"
memory. Hobbit report this as the "actual" memory count.

So a Linux system will practically always have a REAL memory usage
close to 100% (Linus Torvalds once said that "unused RAM is *wasted*
RAM, and there's no reason to spend lots of money on something that
isn't used" - quoting from memory). The ACTUAL memory usage (should)
be a lot less, and is what you'll want to keep an eye on.

We are working with Solaris 9 and for them unfortunately there is no 
ACTUAL MEMory presented. But PHYSical MEMory is always high on some 
machines runing a database in warm standby for the same reasons as 
Henrik explained. In other words: The way it is this test is useless for 
us. I'd prefer other columns of vmstat checked as io, etc. Did anyone 
work in this direction or where have I to dig in trying these changes?

regards
Rolf
-- 
Mit freundlichen Gruessen
Rolf Schrittenlocher

HRZ/BDV, Senckenberganlage 31, 60054 Frankfurt 
Tel: (XX) XX - XXX XXXXX   Fax: (XX) XX XXX XXXX
LBS: user-1e39a1813094@xymon.invalid
Persoenlich: user-6ea8e907e200@xymon.invalid

 
list Stef Coene · Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:11:57 +0100 ·
quoted from Rolf Schrittenlocher
On Wednesday 08 February 2006 08:34, Rolf Schrittenlocher wrote:
We are working with Solaris 9 and for them unfortunately there is no
ACTUAL MEMory presented. But PHYSical MEMory is always high on some
machines runing a database in warm standby for the same reasons as
Henrik explained. In other words: The way it is this test is useless for
us. I'd prefer other columns of vmstat checked as io, etc. Did anyone
work in this direction or where have I to dig in trying these changes?
Swap is usage is _not_ important.  Most systems are a) using all available memory for disk cache, b) swapping not recently used programs to swap in favour for disk cache and c) doing prea-llocation of swap space (reserving disk cache even when it's not yet needed).
So, memory usage is 100% and swap usage can be high even if you have enough memory and not using any swap.

What you have to monitor is a) swap-in / swap-out and b) free list (I know this exist for AIX, but I don't know for other os's).
-> The swap-in / swap-out statistics determine how much of swap is activly used by the system as memory (in best scenario this is most of the time 0 or at least sometimes 0).
-> The free list determines how much memory is free and can be used for programs who really need it very fast (in best scenario this never turns 0).

There are other numbers that are important like page scans and stuff, but page-in and page-out are the most important.

That's why I mailed some days ago to this list to add extra graphs to the memory overview page.  The answer was that this will be not so easy to implement.


Stef
list Henrik Størner · Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:25:58 +0100 ·
quoted from Rolf Schrittenlocher
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 08:34:21AM +0100, Rolf Schrittenlocher wrote:
We are working with Solaris 9 and for them unfortunately there is no 
ACTUAL MEMory presented. But PHYSical MEMory is always high on some 
machines runing a database in warm standby for the same reasons as 
Henrik explained. In other words: The way it is this test is useless for 
us. I'd prefer other columns of vmstat checked as io, etc. Did anyone 
work in this direction or where have I to dig in trying these changes?
Most of the data you want to look at is available in the vmstat data
which Hobbit also collects. And it is highly OS dependant - there is
no "one-size-fits-all" solution to memory monitoring or memory
management.

My plan is to make it possible for any test (cpu, memory ...) to have its 
status modified by some of the data collected by vmstat (currently, the
vmstat data is only used to feed the graph data, not to change a color
or trigger alerts). But that will require some serious re-arranging of how
a status is handled internally by Hobbit (it needs a feed-back mechanism
from the hobbitd modules back into hobbitd, and a mechanism for
modifying the color of an existing status without causing huge amounts
of history updates due to the color changes. Plus some way of
configuring the whole thing. But then it would also let you do neat
stuff like using the standard Hobbit configuration tools to configure
alerts based on custom-built tests and things like that).


Henrik
list David Gilmore · Wed, 8 Feb 2006 09:26:31 -0500 ·
Ok I understand the concept.  However, I don't want to continue to receive
Alerts because Linux is doing exactly what it is designed to do.  Does
anyone have a script that can clear the buffers and stop hobbit from paging
me?  Can I modify the script to only alert when REAL memory is at 100% or
higher?  Or do I have to reboot my server ever morning to resolve this
alert?  I currently have the alerts disabled, but I am concerned that I
could miss a critical error

Dave
 
-----Original Message-----
From: hobbit-return-5584-david=user-9e293dd11111@xymon.invalid [mailto:hobbit-return-5584-david=stenhouseconsulting.com at hswn.
dk] On Behalf Of Henrik Stoerner
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 1:45 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: Re: [hobbit] Memory check
quoted from David Gilmore

On Tue, Feb 07, 2006 at 07:41:23PM -0500, David Gilmore wrote:
My hobbit server (Fedora FC4) has 1.25 gig of memory installed.  When > the server is backed, up using Retrospect client, REAL memory usage > spikes from 34% to 97% and stays at that level until a reboot.  When I > check the system performance, using the built in system monitor, user memory is at 18.9%.
Dell Open Manage is using the most memory at 3% with a few additional > processes between 1% and 2%.  Everything else is well under 1%.  What > exactly is hobbit reporting on when it says that Physical/Real memory > is at 97%, Actual memory is at 17%, and Swap is at 0%?
Hobbit reports the output from the "free" command. It probably looks somewhat like this after you've run a backup:

             total       used       free     shared    buffers cached
Mem:        646432     642172       4260          0     167676 136068
-/+ buffers/cache:     338428     308004
Swap:       511992          4     511988

The "Mem" line here tells you that there is 640 MB RAM installed, and all except 4 MB is being "used". However, a lot of that is used for "buffers" and "cache", which is the Linux kernel's dynamically resized disk cache; if an application needs more RAM that is "free", the disk cache/buffers are discarded and the memory made available to the application.

So that's why the "-/+ buffers/cache" line is interesting: This shows the used/free memory count if the buffers/cached is counted as "free"
memory. Hobbit report this as the "actual" memory count.

So a Linux system will practically always have a REAL memory usage close to 100% (Linus Torvalds once said that "unused RAM is *wasted* RAM, and there's no reason to spend lots of money on something that isn't used" - quoting from memory). The ACTUAL memory usage (should) be a lot less, and is what you'll want to keep an eye on.


Regards,
Henrik

list Stef Coene · Wed, 8 Feb 2006 15:38:58 +0100 ·
quoted from David Gilmore
On Wednesday 08 February 2006 15:26, David Gilmore wrote:
Ok I understand the concept.  However, I don't want to continue to receive
Alerts because Linux is doing exactly what it is designed to do.  Does
anyone have a script that can clear the buffers and stop hobbit from paging
me?  Can I modify the script to only alert when REAL memory is at 100% or
higher?  Or do I have to reboot my server ever morning to resolve this
alert?  I currently have the alerts disabled, but I am concerned that I
could miss a critical error
I'm not sure if it can, but can't you alert on the swap usage?


Stef
list Henrik Størner · Wed, 8 Feb 2006 16:46:53 +0100 ·
quoted from David Gilmore
On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 09:26:31AM -0500, David Gilmore wrote:
Ok I understand the concept.  However, I don't want to continue to receive
Alerts because Linux is doing exactly what it is designed to do.  Does
anyone have a script that can clear the buffers and stop hobbit from paging
me?  Can I modify the script to only alert when REAL memory is at 100% or
higher?  Or do I have to reboot my server ever morning to resolve this
alert?  I currently have the alerts disabled, but I am concerned that I
could miss a critical error
Assuming that you're using the Hobbit client on the Linux box, you
can just configure the client to only go red if the actual memory
usage goes above a certain threshold. In your hobbit-clients.cfg,
you would have

HOST=linux.foo.com
    MEMPHYS 100 101
    MEMACT   80  95
    MEMSWAP  40  70

Then it will stay green as long as the "actual" memory usage is 
below 80%, go yellow when it's between 80-95%, and go red when
it is at 95% or higher.


Regards,
Henrik
list Michael Lowery · Mon, 1 May 2006 09:03:16 -0500 ·
Ok, I don't have a clear understanding of the memory check.  I do
understand what has been discussed, but I have a Redhat 9 where the
"actual" memory utilized is 96%.  However, when I run: ps vax --sort
-rss, I get the following.  It looks like my actual memory usage
shouldn't be at 96%, is this correct?

  PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
 2916 ?        SL     0:00    470   298  2093 2388  0.9 [ntpd]
 2948 pts/1    R      0:00    187    66  2561  684  0.2 ps vax --sort
-rss
 2690 ?        S      0:00  11252   265  6594  612  0.2 /usr/sbin/sshd
 2692 pts/1    S      0:00   2666   588  3775  604  0.2 -bash
  891 ?        S      3:15  30426    24  1415  100  0.0 syslogd -m 0
31227 ?        S      0:00  50692    33  1374   60  0.0
/home/hobbit/client/bin/hobbitlaunch
--config=/home/hobbit/client/etc/client
    1 ?        S      0:04  28806    23  1352   36  0.0 init
 2878 ?        S      0:00   7714   131  4480   36  0.0 [nqmgr]
 2885 ?        S      0:00   4231   190  4481   16  0.0 [smtpd]
 2902 ?        S      0:00   2566   130  4485   16  0.0 [cleanup]
  895 ?        S      0:00    124    18  1349    4  0.0 klogd -x
 1029 ?        S      0:01    520   265  3238    4  0.0 /usr/sbin/sshd
 1043 ?        S      0:00     97   129  1890    4  0.0 xinetd
-stayalive -reuse -pidfile /var/run/xinetd.pid
 1142 ?        S      0:00    340    56  1347    4  0.0 gpm -t ps/2 -m
/dev/psaux
 1151 ?        S      0:00  42450    19  1404    4  0.0 crond
 1185 tty1     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty1
 1186 tty2     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty2
 1187 tty3     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty3
 1188 tty4     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty4
 1189 tty5     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty5
 1190 tty6     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty6
31309 ?        S      0:10 185817    16  9287    4  0.0 /usr/sbin/snmpd
-s -l /dev/null -P /var/run/snmpd -a
 2941 ?        S      0:00    473   588  1447    4  0.0 sh -c vmstat 300
2 1>/home/hobbit/client/tmp/hobbit_vmstat.2930 2>&1; mv /ho
 2943 ?        S      0:00    118     7  1408    4  0.0 vmstat 300 2
    2 ?        SW     0:00      0     0     0    0  0.0 [keventd]

Thanks,
Michael
quoted from Henrik Størner

-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:47 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: Re: [hobbit] Memory check

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 09:26:31AM -0500, David Gilmore wrote:
Ok I understand the concept.  However, I don't want to continue to
receive
Alerts because Linux is doing exactly what it is designed to do.  Does
anyone have a script that can clear the buffers and stop hobbit from
paging
me?  Can I modify the script to only alert when REAL memory is at 100%
or
higher?  Or do I have to reboot my server ever morning to resolve this
alert?  I currently have the alerts disabled, but I am concerned that
I
could miss a critical error
Assuming that you're using the Hobbit client on the Linux box, you
can just configure the client to only go red if the actual memory
usage goes above a certain threshold. In your hobbit-clients.cfg,
you would have

HOST=linux.foo.com
    MEMPHYS 100 101
    MEMACT   80  95
    MEMSWAP  40  70

Then it will stay green as long as the "actual" memory usage is 
below 80%, go yellow when it's between 80-95%, and go red when
it is at 95% or higher.


Regards,
Henrik
list Jeff Newman · Thu, 4 May 2006 10:48:51 -0500 ·
I have seen in the past from various companies products graphs which
plot memory usage by process, so you can see which process is using
the most memory. In addition, there have been CPU usage per process
graphs as well.
Seeing the below made me think about the memory/per process.

I tried the ps vax command on both an AIX and Redhat box and both worked.
Would it be possible to implement this sort of a graph in hobbit?

-Jeff
quoted from Michael Lowery


On 5/1/06, Michael Lowery <user-89d72f0c2e3d@xymon.invalid> wrote:
Ok, I don't have a clear understanding of the memory check.  I do
understand what has been discussed, but I have a Redhat 9 where the
"actual" memory utilized is 96%.  However, when I run: ps vax --sort
-rss, I get the following.  It looks like my actual memory usage
shouldn't be at 96%, is this correct?

 PID TTY      STAT   TIME  MAJFL   TRS   DRS  RSS %MEM COMMAND
 2916 ?        SL     0:00    470   298  2093 2388  0.9 [ntpd]
 2948 pts/1    R      0:00    187    66  2561  684  0.2 ps vax --sort
-rss
 2690 ?        S      0:00  11252   265  6594  612  0.2 /usr/sbin/sshd
 2692 pts/1    S      0:00   2666   588  3775  604  0.2 -bash
 891 ?        S      3:15  30426    24  1415  100  0.0 syslogd -m 0
31227 ?        S      0:00  50692    33  1374   60  0.0
/home/hobbit/client/bin/hobbitlaunch
--config=/home/hobbit/client/etc/client
   1 ?        S      0:04  28806    23  1352   36  0.0 init
 2878 ?        S      0:00   7714   131  4480   36  0.0 [nqmgr]
 2885 ?        S      0:00   4231   190  4481   16  0.0 [smtpd]
 2902 ?        S      0:00   2566   130  4485   16  0.0 [cleanup]
 895 ?        S      0:00    124    18  1349    4  0.0 klogd -x
 1029 ?        S      0:01    520   265  3238    4  0.0 /usr/sbin/sshd
 1043 ?        S      0:00     97   129  1890    4  0.0 xinetd
-stayalive -reuse -pidfile /var/run/xinetd.pid
 1142 ?        S      0:00    340    56  1347    4  0.0 gpm -t ps/2 -m
/dev/psaux
 1151 ?        S      0:00  42450    19  1404    4  0.0 crond
 1185 tty1     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty1
 1186 tty2     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty2
 1187 tty3     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty3
 1188 tty4     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty4
 1189 tty5     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty5
 1190 tty6     S      0:00     98     6  1345    4  0.0 /sbin/mingetty
tty6
31309 ?        S      0:10 185817    16  9287    4  0.0 /usr/sbin/snmpd
-s -l /dev/null -P /var/run/snmpd -a
 2941 ?        S      0:00    473   588  1447    4  0.0 sh -c vmstat 300
2 1>/home/hobbit/client/tmp/hobbit_vmstat.2930 2>&1; mv /ho
 2943 ?        S      0:00    118     7  1408    4  0.0 vmstat 300 2
   2 ?        SW     0:00      0     0     0    0  0.0 [keventd]

Thanks,
Michael

-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid]
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 9:47 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: Re: [hobbit] Memory check

On Wed, Feb 08, 2006 at 09:26:31AM -0500, David Gilmore wrote:
Ok I understand the concept.  However, I don't want to continue to
receive
Alerts because Linux is doing exactly what it is designed to do.  Does
anyone have a script that can clear the buffers and stop hobbit from
paging
me?  Can I modify the script to only alert when REAL memory is at 100%
or
higher?  Or do I have to reboot my server ever morning to resolve this
alert?  I currently have the alerts disabled, but I am concerned that
I
could miss a critical error
Assuming that you're using the Hobbit client on the Linux box, you
can just configure the client to only go red if the actual memory
usage goes above a certain threshold. In your hobbit-clients.cfg,
you would have

HOST=linux.foo.com
   MEMPHYS 100 101
   MEMACT   80  95
   MEMSWAP  40  70

Then it will stay green as long as the "actual" memory usage is
below 80%, go yellow when it's between 80-95%, and go red when
it is at 95% or higher.


Regards,
Henrik

list Henrik Størner · Tue, 30 May 2006 10:41:29 +0200 ·
quoted from Jeff Newman
On Thu, May 04, 2006 at 10:48:51AM -0500, Jeff Newman wrote:
I have seen in the past from various companies products graphs which
plot memory usage by process, so you can see which process is using
the most memory. In addition, there have been CPU usage per process
graphs as well.
Seeing the below made me think about the memory/per process.

I tried the ps vax command on both an AIX and Redhat box and both worked.
Would it be possible to implement this sort of a graph in hobbit?
What I'll do for now (the 4.2 release) is to use a "ps" command in the
client that provides this information.

That will allow us to experiment with the best way of tracking memory
usage for individual processes. E.g. I do anticipate some problems with
how you determine which processes should be tracked, and how to group
them (e.g. you don't want to track individual "httpd" processes - you
want a total for all of them).


Regards,
Henrik