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ntpdate deprecated

12 messages in this thread

list Peter Welter · Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:00:19 +0100 ·
Today, I discovered the following for the ntp-test on our Xymon server:

Service ntp on xymon is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 132.229.84.242 2>&1

       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To

quote the upstream ntp developers:

  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon
  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will
  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."

Please check the Network Time Protocol (NTP) daemon man page and
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate
for further information.

You can replace the ntpdate call with "rcntp ntptimeset" to achieve an
inital poll of the servers specified in /etc/ntp.conf.

The program /usr/sbin/sntp offers comparable functionality to ntpdate.

Specifically
  sntp -P no -r pool.ntp.org
is equivalent to
  ntpdate pool.ntp.org

For further details please refer to the man page of sntp.

sntp: unable to write PID to /etc/sntp.pid
sntp: Permission denied


http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate#Set_the_time_before_running_ntpd


I always thought I needed to run this ntp-test to make sure the time is
correct on the central monitor server, to make sure that the time on other
monitored hosts is checked correctly.

Should I

- change the NTPDATE="ntpdate"-location in /etc/hobbit/hobbitserver.cfg to
NTPDATE="sntp -u" to make it work again?

- disable the ntp-test since because it is useless for checking the correct
time on monitored hosts.

Regards, Peter
list Buchan Milne · Wed, 11 Nov 2009 13:52:12 +0100 ·
quoted from Peter Welter
On Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:00:19 Peter Welter wrote:
Today, I discovered the following for the ntp-test on our Xymon server:

Service ntp on xymon is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 132.229.84.242 2>&1

       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To

quote the upstream ntp developers:

  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon
  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will
  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."

Please check the Network Time Protocol (NTP) daemon man page and
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate
for further information.

You can replace the ntpdate call with "rcntp ntptimeset" to achieve an
inital poll of the servers specified in /etc/ntp.conf.

The program /usr/sbin/sntp offers comparable functionality to ntpdate.
Except the option flags are totally different.
quoted from Peter Welter
Specifically
  sntp -P no -r pool.ntp.org
is equivalent to
  ntpdate pool.ntp.org

For further details please refer to the man page of sntp.

sntp: unable to write PID to /etc/sntp.pid
sntp: Permission denied


http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate#Set_the_time_before_
running_ntpd
quoted from Peter Welter


I always thought I needed to run this ntp-test to make sure the time is
correct on the central monitor server, to make sure that the time on other
monitored hosts is checked correctly.

Should I

- change the NTPDATE="ntpdate"-location in /etc/hobbit/hobbitserver.cfg to
NTPDATE="sntp -u" to make it work again?
This on it's own won't be enough, as additional options are added to the NTPDATE path:

$ grep -n -A7 NTPDATE ./bbnet/bbtest-net.c
991:    p = xgetenv("NTPDATE");
992-    strcpy(cmdpath, (p ? p : "ntpdate"));
993-    for (t=service->items; (t); t = t->next) {
994-            if (!t->host->dnserror) {
995-                    sprintf(cmd, "%s -u -q -p 2 %s 2>&1", cmdpath, ip_to_test(t->host));
996-                    t->open = (run_command(cmd, "no server suitable for synchronization", t->banner, 1, extcmdtimeout) == 0);
997-            }
998-    }

These options aren't supported by sntp. You could hack this by modifying the options, but the long-term fix (for people who don't have sntp yet) would have to be different.
quoted from Peter Welter
- disable the ntp-test since because it is useless for checking the correct
time on monitored hosts.
NTP is not that useful for monitoring the time on monitored hosts,  (the client's built-in check is better, see the CLOCK option for hobbit-clients.cfg thresholds), unless you are running all your hosts as ntp servers. It is however useful for checking whether the host believes it should be able to provide time services to other hosts.

I only run this network test against NTP servers that other hosts use as time sources.

Regards,
Buchan
list Peter Welter · Wed, 11 Nov 2009 16:14:44 +0100 ·
Hi Buchan,

Thanks for the response. I will disable the ntp-test. it's running on three
hosts and all of them report the same WARNING-output.

However, the reason I came up with this is that in our network we have some
W2K-hosts (the Domain Controllers) who have (according to Xymon) a time that
is not accurate (I'm using the CLOCK option and Xymon thinks they are
drifting too far; above threshold of 30 seconds).

I wondered: how is this determined on the Windows side? Because when we have
a look at this system, the time is correct? It looks like the time
difference between the page generation and the send time (12:38:57 -
12:37:19) = 98 seconds off (see below).

The time on the server however IS correct. I've seen it, but since the total
MSG-size for these servers is so large (a few hundreds KB to 1 or 2 MB,
because of the domain controller function, there are hundreds of open ports
- netstat output), it does take some addiotinal time for the Xymon
client/server combination, to proces?!

Can I limit this output. For example: do NOT send UDP output? That would be
a quick fix solution?
Or better: split the output in several files, since the other (netstat) info
is valuable, but it should NOT interfere with the normal functionality of
Xymon and/of its clients. So the output should be send seperately to the
server.

Regards, Peter

*Wed Nov 11 12:38:57 2009*


    Wed Nov 11 12:37:19 2009 NOT ok

[image: yellow] System clock is 98 seconds off (max 30)

local: Wed Nov 11 12:37:19 2009
UTC: Wed Nov 11 11:37:19 2009


2009/11/11 Buchan Milne <user-9b139aff4dec@xymon.invalid>
quoted from Peter Welter
On Wednesday, 11 November 2009 12:00:19 Peter Welter wrote:
Today, I discovered the following for the ntp-test on our Xymon server:

Service ntp on xymon is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 132.229.84.242 2>&1

       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To

quote the upstream ntp developers:

  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon
  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will
  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."

Please check the Network Time Protocol (NTP) daemon man page and
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate
for further information.

You can replace the ntpdate call with "rcntp ntptimeset" to achieve an
inital poll of the servers specified in /etc/ntp.conf.

The program /usr/sbin/sntp offers comparable functionality to ntpdate.
Except the option flags are totally different.
Specifically
  sntp -P no -r pool.ntp.org
is equivalent to
  ntpdate pool.ntp.org

For further details please refer to the man page of sntp.

sntp: unable to write PID to /etc/sntp.pid
sntp: Permission denied

http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate#Set_the_time_before_
running_ntpd


I always thought I needed to run this ntp-test to make sure the time is
correct on the central monitor server, to make sure that the time on
other
monitored hosts is checked correctly.

Should I

- change the NTPDATE="ntpdate"-location in /etc/hobbit/hobbitserver.cfg
to
NTPDATE="sntp -u" to make it work again?
This on it's own won't be enough, as additional options are added to the
NTPDATE path:

$ grep -n -A7 NTPDATE ./bbnet/bbtest-net.c
991:    p = xgetenv("NTPDATE");
992-    strcpy(cmdpath, (p ? p : "ntpdate"));
993-    for (t=service->items; (t); t = t->next) {
994-            if (!t->host->dnserror) {
995-                    sprintf(cmd, "%s -u -q -p 2 %s 2>&1", cmdpath,
ip_to_test(t->host));
996-                    t->open = (run_command(cmd, "no server suitable for
synchronization", t->banner, 1, extcmdtimeout) == 0);
997-            }
998-    }

These options aren't supported by sntp. You could hack this by modifying
the
options, but the long-term fix (for people who don't have sntp yet) would
have
to be different.
- disable the ntp-test since because it is useless for checking the
correct
time on monitored hosts.
NTP is not that useful for monitoring the time on monitored hosts,  (the
client's built-in check is better, see the CLOCK option for
hobbit-clients.cfg
thresholds), unless you are running all your hosts as ntp servers. It is
however useful for checking whether the host believes it should be able to
provide time services to other hosts.

I only run this network test against NTP servers that other hosts use as
time
sources.

Regards,
Buchan
list Henrik Størner · Fri, 13 Nov 2009 10:51:26 +0000 (UTC) ·
quoted from Buchan Milne
In <user-d76fbd0e7ae9@xymon.invalid> Buchan Milne <user-9b139aff4dec@xymon.invalid> writes:
NTP is not that useful for monitoring the time on monitored hosts,  (the 
client's built-in check is better, see the CLOCK option for hobbit-clients.cfg 
thresholds), unless you are running all your hosts as ntp servers.
Sorry, but I don't agree.

The CLOCK option works by comparing the timestamp a client puts into 
the client-message with the timestamp on the Xymon server by the time
that client-message is received. This can easily vary several seconds,
depending on 

 - the load of the Xymon server
 - network latencies between the client and the Xymon server
 - the load on the client
 - how long it takes the client to generate the client data
 - how well time is synchronized on the Xymon server
 - and probably something else

That's why the default threshold for the CLOCK test is 30 seconds;
it really is not a very accurate way of determining the actual
time difference between a client and the "real" time.

And for some types of servers (notably Windows domain controllers
and other Kerberos-style servers) it is completely inadequate.


You're right that it requires some code-changes to use the "sntp"
utility instead of "ntpdate". I'll merge some code for this into
4.3.0, that will also allow us to drop the old "ntpstat" extension
since we already have that data from either ntpdate or sntp.


Regards,
Henrik
list Devnull · Fri, 13 Nov 2009 11:55:10 +0100 ·
I just migrated from BB to xymon in the past days and didnt hit any
problems while migrating. But if you done the migration, you see the
options xymon offers and you want to use them :)

Were using scripts to get statuses of some hosts, like diskspace usage,
mysql replication status, raid status, memcached-stats and also the amount
of queued mails.

I want to have a graph that shows up the mailq status.

If done the following already:

hobbitserver.cfg
Added mailq=ncv to TEST2RRD
Added NCV_mailq="mailq:GAUGE"

GRAPHS=" ..,ncv, .. " is set.

hobbitgraph.cfg

[mailq]
TITLE Mailqueue
YAXIS Anzahl
DEF:mailq=mailq.rrd:mailqueue:
AVERAGE
LINE2:mailq#00CCCC:mailq:AV
COMMENT:\n
GPRINT:mailq:LAST:Inode cache \: %5.1lf%s (cur)
GPRINT:mailq:MAX: \: %5.1lf%s (max)
GPRINT:mailq:MIN: \: %5.1lf%s (min)
GPRINT:mailq:AVERAGE: \: %5.1lf%s (avg)\n

Im really unsure about this .. but an "hobbitgraph ncv:mailq" Link is
displayed in the page of the service at my testing host.

But, and that would be the problem, there ist no .rrd file created in
$HOME/data/rrd/HOSTNAME .There are only .rrd files for test which are
excecuted by the xymon server, but i excecute the tests at the hosts and
sending the status to the server via the bbrother.pl script.

How can i tell xymon to create the .rrd file for this test?
list Peter Welter · Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:45:33 +0100 ·
2009/11/13 Henrik Størner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid>:
quoted from Buchan Milne
In <user-d76fbd0e7ae9@xymon.invalid> Buchan Milne <user-9b139aff4dec@xymon.invalid> writes:

And for some types of servers (notably Windows domain controllers
and other Kerberos-style servers) it is completely inadequate.
For this reason I've set the CLOCK option to 700 seconds for these
particular hosts.
quoted from Henrik Størner
You're right that it requires some code-changes to use the "sntp"
utility instead of "ntpdate". I'll merge some code for this into
4.3.0, that will also allow us to drop the old "ntpstat" extension
since we already have that data from either ntpdate or sntp.
Thanks for the information; that would be nice.

regards Peter
list Daniel McDonald · Fri, 10 Jan 2014 08:49:27 -0600 ·
Running xymon 4.3.13 on SuSe ES 11 SP 3, the ntp test isn¹t working:

Fri Jan 10 08:21:02 2014 ntp ok


Service ntp on ns6.aelabad.net is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 10.1.9.51 2>&1
quoted from Peter Welter

       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To
quote the upstream ntp developers:

  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon
  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will
  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."

Please check the Network Time Protocol (NTP) daemon man page and
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate
for further information.

You can replace the ntpdate call with "rcntp ntptimeset" to achieve an
inital poll of the servers specified in /etc/ntp.conf.

The program /usr/sbin/sntp offers comparable functionality to ntpdate.
Specifically
  sntp -P no -r pool.ntp.org
is equivalent to
  ntpdate pool.ntp.org

For further details please refer to the man page of sntp.
sntp: unable to write PID to /etc/sntp.pid
sntp: Permission denied


-- 

Daniel J McDonald, CISSP # 78281
list Paul Root · Fri, 10 Jan 2014 14:57:40 +0000 ·
That's bad. It doesn't appear to address the -q option of ntpdate.

From: Xymon [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Daniel McDonald
Sent: Friday, January 10, 2014 8:49 AM
To: xymon at xymon.com
Subject: [Xymon] Ntpdate deprecated

Running xymon 4.3.13 on SuSe ES 11 SP 3, the ntp test isn't working:
quoted from Daniel McDonald

Fri Jan 10 08:21:02 2014 ntp ok


Service ntp on ns6.aelabad.net is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 10.1.9.51 2>&1

       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To
quote the upstream ntp developers:

  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon
  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will
  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."

Please check the Network Time Protocol (NTP) daemon man page and
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate
for further information.

You can replace the ntpdate call with "rcntp ntptimeset" to achieve an
inital poll of the servers specified in /etc/ntp.conf.

The program /usr/sbin/sntp offers comparable functionality to ntpdate.
Specifically
  sntp -P no -r pool.ntp.org
is equivalent to
  ntpdate pool.ntp.org

For further details please refer to the man page of sntp.
sntp: unable to write PID to /etc/sntp.pid
sntp: Permission denied


--
Daniel J McDonald, CISSP # 78281
list Henrik Størner · Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:33:49 +0100 ·
quoted from Daniel McDonald
Den 10-01-2014 15:49, Daniel McDonald skrev:
Running xymon 4.3.13 on SuSe ES 11 SP 3, the ntp test isn’t working:
Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 10.1.9.51 2>&1

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.
I have given up on ntpdate, sntp, "ntpd -q" etc ... each sub-version of 
the ntp package appears to have a new set of commands and options.

In version 5, the NTP check is built into the network test tool, so it 
doesn't rely on any external programs.


Regards,
Henrik
list T.J. Yang · Fri, 10 Jan 2014 10:34:08 -0600 ·
In my test environment, ntp monitoring on centos-6.5 + xymon-4.3.13 works
fine.


tj
quoted from Paul Root


On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 8:57 AM, Root, Paul T <user-76fdb6883669@xymon.invalid>wrote:
 That’s bad. It doesn’t appear to address the –q option of ntpdate.


*From:* Xymon [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] *On Behalf Of *Daniel
McDonald
*Sent:* Friday, January 10, 2014 8:49 AM
*To:* xymon at xymon.com
*Subject:* [Xymon] Ntpdate deprecated


Running xymon 4.3.13 on SuSe ES 11 SP 3, the ntp test isn’t working:


*Fri Jan 10 08:21:02 2014 ntp ok *

Service ntp on ns6.aelabad.net is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 10.1.9.51 2>&1

       !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.  To
quote the upstream ntp developers:

  "The functionality ntpdate offered is now provided by the ntpd daemon
  itself.  If you call ntpd with the command line option -q it will
  retrieve the current time and set it accordingly."

Please check the Network Time Protocol (NTP) daemon man page and
  http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/DeprecatingNtpdate
for further information.

You can replace the ntpdate call with "rcntp ntptimeset" to achieve an
inital poll of the servers specified in /etc/ntp.conf.

The program /usr/sbin/sntp offers comparable functionality to ntpdate.
Specifically
  sntp -P no -r pool.ntp.org
is equivalent to
  ntpdate pool.ntp.org

For further details please refer to the man page of sntp.
sntp: unable to write PID to /etc/sntp.pid
sntp: Permission denied


--
Daniel J McDonald, CISSP # 78281

-- 

T.J. Yang
list Daniel McDonald · Fri, 10 Jan 2014 12:40:57 -0600 ·
quoted from Henrik Størner
On 1/10/14 10:33 AM, "Henrik Størner" <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:
Den 10-01-2014 15:49, Daniel McDonald skrev:
Running xymon 4.3.13 on SuSe ES 11 SP 3, the ntp test isn¹t working:
Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 10.1.9.51 2>&1

        !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.
I have given up on ntpdate, sntp, "ntpd -q" etc ... each sub-version of
the ntp package appears to have a new set of commands and options.

In version 5, the NTP check is built into the network test tool, so it
doesn't rely on any external programs.
That doesn't seem to be implemented yet on beta.xymon.com:

Fri Jan 10 19:29:02 2014 ntp ok


Service ntp on blixen.hswn.dk is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 192.168.1.1 2>&1

server 192.168.1.1, stratum 2, offset -0.000006, delay 0.02565
10 Jan 19:29:22 ntpdate[8420]: adjust time server 192.168.1.1 offset
-0.000006 sec


That's probably a show-stopper for migrating our core xymon server to SuSE.
Is there a snapshot tarball with the new ntp method in it?


-- 
Daniel J McDonald
list Henrik Størner · Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:06:49 +0100 ·
quoted from Daniel McDonald
Den 10-01-2014 19:40, Daniel McDonald skrev:
On 1/10/14 10:33 AM, "Henrik Størner" <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:
Den 10-01-2014 15:49, Daniel McDonald skrev:
Running xymon 4.3.13 on SuSe ES 11 SP 3, the ntp test isn¹t working:
Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 10.1.9.51 2>&1

         !!!!!!!!!!!!!!  WARNING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The ntpdate program is deprecated and should not be used any more.
I have given up on ntpdate, sntp, "ntpd -q" etc ... each sub-version of
the ntp package appears to have a new set of commands and options.

In version 5, the NTP check is built into the network test tool, so it
doesn't rely on any external programs.
That doesn't seem to be implemented yet on beta.xymon.com:

Fri Jan 10 19:29:02 2014 ntp ok


Service ntp on blixen.hswn.dk is OK (up)


Command: ntpdate -u -q -p 2 192.168.1.1 2>&1
Don't let that fool you :-) The "blixen" server is on an internal 
network, so it cannot be reached from beta.xymon.com - the data you see 
here comes from a Xymon network probe running version 4.

I've added another ntp check for the "strauss" server, so have a look at 
http://beta.xymon.com/xymon-cgi/svcstatus.sh?HOST=strauss.hswn.dk&SERVICE=ntp 
:

    Service ntp on strauss.hswn.dk is OK (up)

    Target : 78.46.170.167 port 123

    Seconds: 0.001

But .. you ask: Where is all of the NTP data? It's in the client data:
http://beta.xymon.com/xymon-cgi/svcstatus.sh?CLIENT=strauss.hswn.dk&section=ntp

[ntp]
Handler: ntp
StartTime: 1389391314
EndTime: 1389391314
TargetHostname: strauss.hswn.dk
TargetIP: 78.46.170.167
TargetPort: 123
Location: hetzner
Protocol: UDP
SSL: NO
Status: OK
TestID: 20
ElapsedMS: 0.237
DNSMS: 0.42
TimeoutMS: 30000
IntervalMS: 300000
BytesRead: 0
BytesWritten: 0
NTPstratum: 3
NTPoffset:    -0.000005


Regards,
Henrik