Hand editing config files
list W.J.M. Nelis
Hello Henrik,
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ?
Well, in our case most of the hosts.cfg is generated from a database. Text files do offer an important feature: grouping. A group of devices can be put into a single (physical) file, which is included, either directly or indirectly, in hosts.cfg. Rewriting an included file thus means that a group of definitions is replaced by another group. Often the differences will be small, but that is not necessarily so. Such a grouping, of the devices to be monitored, the tests to be performed on each and of the associated layout, is a handy feature, which I would like to see in future versions as well. Regards, Wim Nelis. ****************************************************************************************************************** The NLR disclaimer is valid for NLR e-mail messages. This message is only meant for providing information. Nothing in this e-mail message amounts to a contractual or legal commitment on the part of the sender. This message may contain information that is not intended for you. If you are not the addressee or if this message was sent to you by mistake, you are requested to inform the sender and delete the message. Sender accepts no liability for damage of any kind resulting from the risks inherent in the electronic transmission of messages. ******************************************************************************************************************
list Henrik Størner
Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”. Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files.
▸
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
list Josh Luthman
If it isn't broke, don't fix it. Does anyone want to see the configuration methods change? The only issue I see is a web front end to edit it would be nice (which I have with hobbitmontools). I don't want to SSH in to add a host or change a test. Josh Luthman Office: XXX-XXX-XXXX Direct: XXX-XXX-XXXX XXXX Wayne St Suite XXXX Troy, OH XXXXX
▸
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Henrik Størner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”. Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback... Regards, Henrik
list Paul Root
I'm an old grouch that always wants flat files that I can edit. But I know the future. Sounds like a good idea, Henrik. Paul Root - Senior Engineer Managed Services Systems - CenturyLink
-----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:04 PM To: Xymon mailinglist Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
▸
Hi,
in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned
which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files".
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely
flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your
setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in
there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally.
It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or
"dangerous".
I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been
swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty
round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a
complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've
started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data
used
by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary
text-files.
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at
least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg
configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make
some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for
instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for
managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up
in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that
Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you
auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a
database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any attachments.
list Tom Kauffman
▸
On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 05:04:10 PM Henrik Størner wrote:
Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback...
Well - I've retired, so I don't have access to the source anymore - but I did a couple of nifty hacks based on the main config being text files.
I tagged the IBM RS-6000 Hardware Management Consoles with the tag HMC. On the xymon server I launched a script every 5 minutes to find the HMC(s) and run a query to determine the system names of the managed frames and the system names of the virtual servers running on them.
Then I built include files which were already coded into the main config. One that listed all the managed frames, and one for each managed frame to list all the virtual systems on the frame. At the same time, I built a cpu utilization summary value for the managed frame that was the sum of the virtual system's cpu usage and a memory utilization summary to match. We alerted on more than 7 CPUs in use and went red on more than 7.5 CPUs in use (these were all 8 CPU systems)
The result was a group on our main display for the managed frames, followed by a group for each frame showing the systems on that frame at the time. As an aside, the partition mobility functionality in AIX and the HMC on Power 6 hardware let us move an SAP/Oracle central instance serving 700 users from one frame to another without causing any issues for the users. Continuous pings to the system showed one (1) ping getting dropped in the entire process.
Later I did much the same for our VMware ESX systems and their clients. The last I heard, this is still in use.
list Tim McCloskey
I'm with Paul on this one. Text files work just fine. I put together some PHP crap with a mysql backend to store some stuff (linked to the hosts via the notes dir) but everything else seems fine in text files.
▸
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Root, Paul [user-76fdb6883669@xymon.invalid]
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 2:07 PM
To: 'Henrik Størner'; Xymon mailinglist
Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
I'm an old grouch that always wants flat files that I can edit.
But I know the future. Sounds like a good idea, Henrik.
Paul Root - Senior Engineer
Managed Services Systems - CenturyLink
-----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 4:04 PM To: Xymon mailinglist Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files". Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback... Regards, Henrik
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any attachments.
list Robert Schetterer
Am 13.06.2012 23:04, schrieb Henrik Størner:
▸
Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”. Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback...
Hi Henrik, it may not easy to port all options from txt files to some web gui etc but starting with some "framework" and i.e host.cfg ips hostnames with common tests to choose in a gui will be helpfull for "other" users not knowing shell thx for coding anyway by the way i found the snmp stuff in xymon is more what should get more hacking , i struggeled a lot with it ,these days, by migration to new monitoring server and xymon new version devmon seems outdated and include mrtg isnt easy at all xymon should have its own snmp stuff ( i studied your examples from the list ) but cant make it run like expected
Regards, Henrik
-- Best Regards MfG Robert Schetterer
list Asif Iqbal
▸
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 5:04 PM, Henrik Størner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:
Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”. Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback...
I would not mind a builtin editing tool, to come with xymon, like visudo/vipw/crontab -e does, where as soon as you finish editing, it does syntax checks and errors out and also locks the file while editing.
Regards, Henrik ______________________________** Xymon at xymon.com<
-- Asif Iqbal PGP Key: 0xE62693C5 KeyServer: pgp.mit.edu A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text. Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
list Ken Connell
I have no issue editing hosts and config files manually...if It becomes known there's a GUI interface I'll get all kinds of users wanting access and adding things that don't need to be there and just screwing things up in general.
Sometimes making things easier just makes them more complicated...
Ken Connell
Intermediate Network Engineer
Computer & Communication Services
Ryerson University
XXX Victoria St
RM AB50
Toronto, Ont
M5B 2K3
XXX-XXX-XXXX x6709
-----Original Message-----
From: Henrik Størner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid>
Sender: xymon-bounces at xymon.com
Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2012 23:04:10 To: Xymon mailinglist<xymon at xymon.com>
▸
Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
Hi,
in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”.
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally.
It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous".
I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files.
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
list Scot Kreienkamp
I'm OK with text files, but a syntax checker for each config file sure would be nice. I like the text files for the flexibility they allow. Scot Kreienkamp Senior Systems Engineer user-462cf0b6d846@xymon.invalid
▸
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Xymon mailinglist
Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
Hi,
in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned
which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files".
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely
flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your
setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in
there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally.
It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous".
I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been
swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty
round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a
complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've
started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used
by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary
text-files.
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at
least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg
configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make
some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for
instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for
managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up
in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that
Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you
auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a
database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
This message is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential information which is exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that you are strictly prohibited from disseminating or distributing this information (other than to the intended recipient) or copying this information. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or by telephone at the above number. Thank you.
list Ford Alan
Here here :-) agree a config/syntax checker would be great... Would be good to have something that generates the web pages into a folder so you can see the changes without actually putting them into Xymon so you can adjust the layout with immediately affecting the "Live view" :-) Alan Ford Senior Database Administrator Com Serv - Information Communications and Technology Stanwell Corporation Limited www.stanwell.com
▸
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Scot Kreienkamp
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 9:13 AM
To: 'Henrik Størner'; Xymon mailinglist
Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
I'm OK with text files, but a syntax checker for each config file sure would be nice. I like the text files for the flexibility they allow.
Scot Kreienkamp
Senior Systems Engineer
user-462cf0b6d846@xymon.invalid
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Xymon mailinglist
Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
Hi,
in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files".
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally.
It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous".
I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files.
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
This message is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential information which is exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that you are strictly prohibited from disseminating or distributing this information (other than to the intended recipient) or copying this information. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or by telephone at the above number. Thank you.
This email is to be read subject to the email disclaimer located at http://www.stanwell.com/email-disclaimer.aspx
list Matthew Neumark
We monitor over 250 locations with about 5000 devices. The host file does become a huge pain to add and remove small changes. Unless you download the file, make changes, and then re-upload it. I know I could use "vi" or "nano", but I have better tools on my desktop. Plus, our environment is pretty dynamic and changing often. So it makes it a daily chore to keep up with. So a GUI would drastically help if I could even edit the whole file from just a simple page. As I could just copy and paste it without having to download, change, and re-upload. Matt Neumark
▸
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Xymon mailinglist
Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
Hi,
in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned
which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files".
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely
flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your
setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in
there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally.
It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous".
I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been
swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty
round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a
complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've
started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used
by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary
text-files.
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at
least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg
configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make
some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for
instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for
managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up
in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that
Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you
auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a
database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
This message is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential information which is exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that you are strictly prohibited from disseminating or distributing this information (other than to the intended recipient) or copying this information. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or by telephone at the above number. Thank you.
list Steve Holmes
▸
On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:12 PM, Scot Kreienkamp <user-462cf0b6d846@xymon.invalid>wrote:
I'm OK with text files, but a syntax checker for each config file sure would be nice. I like the text files for the flexibility they allow. Scot Kreienkamp Senior Systems Engineer user-462cf0b6d846@xymon.invalid -----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:04 PM To: Xymon mailinglist Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files". Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback... Regards, Henrik This message is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential information which is exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that you are strictly prohibited from disseminating or distributing this information (other than to the intended recipient) or copying this information. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or by telephone at the above number. Thank you.
I'm ok with text and hand editing - BUT it would be really cool if there was a tool that would make it easier to update multiple files consistently. I realize with regexps on page AND host names this becomes very complicated, but when I remove hosts I often forget the remove them from the auxiliary config files. It doesn't really hurt anything, but makes for a bigger clean-up job later. Thanks for a great tool! Steve Holmes -- If they give you ruled paper, write the other way. -Juan Ramon Jimenez, poet, Nobel Prize in literature (1881-1958) I prayed for freedom for twenty years, but received no answer until I prayed with my legs. -Frederick Douglass, Former slave, abolitionist, editor, and orator (1817-1895)
list Jamison Maxwell
My vote is on text files.... I wouldn't complain about a syntax checker, but I probably wouldn't use it either.... (I edit /etc/shadow with VI, I know, I'm a rebel.) Jamison Maxwell user-87d336c3dce6@xymon.invalid
▸
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of FORD Alan
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:42 PM
To: 'Scot Kreienkamp'; 'Henrik Størner'; Xymon mailinglist
Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
Here here :-) agree a config/syntax checker would be great...
Would be good to have something that generates the web pages into a folder so you can see the changes without actually putting them into Xymon so you can adjust the layout with immediately affecting the "Live view" :-)
Alan Ford
Senior Database Administrator
Com Serv - Information Communications and Technology Stanwell Corporation Limited
www.stanwell.com
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Scot Kreienkamp
Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 9:13 AM
To: 'Henrik Størner'; Xymon mailinglist
Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
I'm OK with text files, but a syntax checker for each config file sure would be nice. I like the text files for the flexibility they allow.
Scot Kreienkamp
Senior Systems Engineer
user-462cf0b6d846@xymon.invalid
-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:04 PM
To: Xymon mailinglist
Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
Hi,
in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files".
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally.
It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous".
I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files.
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.
This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ?
Just looking for some feedback...
Regards,
Henrik
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list Xymon User in Richmond
I'm very comfortable with the text file configuration, but a GUI would probably expand the installed base. Please either keep the ability to use text files as an alternative, or provide a simple bulk-load interface/API for the database. I'm not doing it yet, but we have a configuration management database with sufficient asset information to generate hosts.cfg (for instance). My general objection to GUIs is having to do everything manually because they're built for single transactions at a time.
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On Wed, June 13, 2012 21:12, Jamison Maxwell wrote:My vote is on text files.... I wouldn't complain about a syntax checker, but I probably wouldn't use it either.... (I edit /etc/shadow with VI, I know, I'm a rebel.) Jamison Maxwell user-87d336c3dce6@xymon.invalid -----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of FORD Alan Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 7:42 PM To: 'Scot Kreienkamp'; 'Henrik Størner'; Xymon mailinglist Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files Here here :-) agree a config/syntax checker would be great... Would be good to have something that generates the web pages into a folder so you can see the changes without actually putting them into Xymon so you can adjust the layout with immediately affecting the "Live view" :-) Alan Ford Senior Database Administrator Com Serv - Information Communications and Technology Stanwell Corporation Limited www.stanwell.com -----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Scot Kreienkamp Sent: Thursday, 14 June 2012 9:13 AM To: 'Henrik Størner'; Xymon mailinglist Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files I'm OK with text files, but a syntax checker for each config file sure would be nice. I like the text files for the flexibility they allow. Scot Kreienkamp Senior Systems Engineer user-462cf0b6d846@xymon.invalid -----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Henrik Størner Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2012 5:04 PM To: Xymon mailinglist Subject: [Xymon] Hand editing config files Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of "no hand editing of config files". Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback... Regards, Henrik This message is intended only for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. It may contain privileged, confidential information which is exempt from disclosure under applicable laws. If you are not the intended recipient, please note that you are strictly prohibited from disseminating or distributing this information (other than to the intended recipient) or copying this information. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail or by telephone at the above number. Thank you. This email is to be read subject to the email disclaimer located at http://www.stanwell.com/email-disclaimer.aspx
list Vernon Everett
I hate to sound greedy, but is there a way to have the best of both worlds?
Assume a text config file that could be imported into a database table.
This table could be re-exported from the table to text file.
Changes to the table, (edited via the GUI) trigger an export to text file.
Changes detected in the text file are either automagically imported
into the table, or will need to be manually imported into the database
with an import tool. Haven't decided which is better yet, but I am
leaning towards a manual import.
Edit files, run cfg-import.
How to ensure simultanious edits are not occurring is left as an
exercise for the reader :-)
Right now, unless you use some form of version control, concurrent
edits are possible anyway, so we would be no worse off.
The advantage of this system is that the configs done using the GUI
will automatically be sanity checked. (I hope) In theory the GUI
shouldn't allow a config change that is completely wrong.
But, by importing the text file, into a database, the text file will
need to be sanity checked, probably using the same routine, and will
be rejected if it is obviously wrong too.
And it satisfies the grey-beards and the click-monkeys.
Two ways to edit. The best of both worlds.
Regards
Vernon
▸
On 14/06/2012, Henrik Størner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned which had the advantage of “no hand editing of config files”. Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback... Regards, Henrik
--
"While it is futile to try to eliminate risk, and questionable to try to
minimize it, it is essential that the risks taken be the right risks. "
- Peter F. Drucker
list Cami
▸
On 2012/06/13 11:04 PM, Henrik Størner wrote:
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ?
For us, that would be a welcomed addition. I do not want to give physical access to the monitoring team and having a GUI of sorts would allow them to "manage" the system in a much cleaner way. It could also open up the possibility of having access control built into Xymon instead of relying on Apache for restricting certain users / groups to certain pages in the future. Regards, Cami
list Malcolm Hunter
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----- Original Message ----- From: Cami Sent: 06/14/12 07:31 AM To: xymon at xymon.com Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files On 2012/06/13 11:04 PM, Henrik Størner wrote:And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing > at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg > configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make > some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for > instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for > managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up > in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that > Xymon has all configuration in text files ?For us, that would be a welcomed addition. I do not want to give physical access to the monitoring team and having a GUI of sorts would allow them to "manage" the system in a much cleaner way. It could also open up the possibility of having access control built into Xymon instead of relying on Apache for restricting certain users / groups to certain pages in the future.
I'm all for having a database back-end for config. It would also make my life easier to teach my colleagues to use a GUI (web page?) to edit the config rather than teaching them to use the BASH shell and vi. As long as the GUI is kept up to date to support any changes to config options and supports bulk loads, it shouldn't be a problem. It would be best if Xymon can be configured to use one or the other (flat files or db), to allow time for the development of the GUI to catch up with the available options that flat files currently provide. A migration facility should be provided to go from flat files to db as well. Malcolm -- BBWin Development - The Windows client for Big Brother and Xymon http://bbwin.sourceforge.net http://xymon.sourceforge.net
list Ulric Eriksson
Henrik Størner skrev 2012-06-13 23:04:
▸
And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.
Having users hand-edit text files makes Xymon a non-starter for many organizations. And as you mentioned, even someone who is familiar with Xymon makes mistakes. Storing the configuration in a database and creating a user friendly management interface is definitely the right way to go. The whole thing can be bolted on to the existing code base with no changes to anything else. Just have the configuration system generate text configuration files in the same syntax as today and anybody who is able and willing to create the files manually can continue to do so. FWIW, I think the lack of proper client/server functionality makes Sqlite unsuitable for the purpose. Ulric
list Neil Simmonds
I'm in agreement with Ulric on the Database/Gui OR text file option. I'd like to still be able to update my config files manually and wouldn't really want a gui but accept that other users may want it. I don't even use the gui for criticals.cfg as I've created a script that I can pass servername,type,tests parameters too and it will autogenerate the criticals.cfg entries and some basic html help pages for known tests.
-----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Ulric Eriksson Sent: 14 June 2012 15:43
▸
To: xymon at xymon.com Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files Henrik Størner skrev 2012-06-13 23:04:And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.Having users hand-edit text files makes Xymon a non-starter for many organizations. And as you mentioned, even someone who is familiar with Xymon makes mistakes. Storing the configuration in a database and creating a user friendly management interface is definitely the right way to go. The whole thing can be bolted on to the existing code base with no changes to anything else. Just have the configuration system generate text configuration files in the same syntax as today and anybody who is able and willing to create the files manually can continue to do so. FWIW, I think the lack of proper client/server functionality makes Sqlite unsuitable for the purpose. Ulric
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list Paul Root
User friendly is a relative term. Forcing the use of a GUI is slow and not friendly to me. But I understand today's computer professionals have no concept of low level work, or understanding the inner workings of a computer or program. It's inevitable that everything be point and click. Whatever gui that we come up with I hope it has either bulk entry page, or a parser/upload function from a flat file.
▸
Paul Root - Senior Engineer
Managed Services Systems - CenturyLink
-----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Ulric Eriksson
Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2012 9:43 AM
▸
To: xymon at xymon.com Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files Henrik Størner skrev 2012-06-13 23:04:And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored.Having users hand-edit text files makes Xymon a non-starter for many organizations. And as you mentioned, even someone who is familiar with Xymon makes mistakes. Storing the configuration in a database and creating a user friendly management interface is definitely the right way to go. The whole thing can be bolted on to the existing code base with no changes to anything else. Just have the configuration system generate text configuration files in the same syntax as today and anybody who is able and willing to create the files manually can continue to do so. FWIW, I think the lack of proper client/server functionality makes Sqlite unsuitable for the purpose. Ulric
This communication is the property of CenturyLink and may contain confidential or privileged information. Unauthorized use of this communication is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy all copies of the communication and any attachments.
list Isaac W Traxler
Some folks have taken this thread to be a general what-if you could do this, so I have joined that group. I suspect some of the things I want already exist and Ihave not dicovered them yet or am to obtuse to figure out. Comments about flat files vs GUI: - Flat files certainly offer a lot of options - A syntax checker would be nice - A GUI might attract some folks, but it is more likely to remove flexibility for the rest of us - Like others, I have been looking at generating the hosts.cfg file from data in racktables and additional custom tables - Most of the current Xymon users chose Xymon because of its simplicity, light weight, flexible configuration and its extensibility -- would a change create a fork? Database comments: - What impact will it make on resources (xymon is frugral) - What about databse crashes/recovery - Will it improve performance - Does it replace text files - How many additional packages must be installed Side note: I started monitoring with Big Brother many years ago. I made efforts with Nagios and Zabbix. I cam back to Xymon. Xymon is not perfect. But it is light weight (Zabbix out ran my resources with a couple of dozen machines monitorred). It lives in a push or pull model (I am often amazed at how differently people implement Xymon). Xymon will do just about anything (I just need to be bright enough to write a script). Features that I would like: - better snmp support (some devices are basically only snmp) - recent non-green page (only events that have happened in last configurable time period) - disk graphs -- a way to indicate disk size changed (kind of like the arrows on a stock graph to indicate a split) - column view -- the ability to pick 1 (maybe more columns) and see all machines for only that column - A good way to handle events. Events happen and can easily generate a Xymon message. A good, consistent method for those events to go away, reset to green, or something would be nice. In particular, I (and others) have spent lots of time processing syslog messages. I could generate dozens of messages from syslog events. Unfortunately, most do not have a follow event to indicate the first event is over. - Web content that was happy with iPhone/iPad - Alternate web front end/dashboard. When trying to convince others of the value of Xymon I get beat up over the "dated" web look more than I the lack of GUI config or lack of database technology (in fairness I often hear folks complain about the lack of a database until the see how fast, efficient and low memory the Xymon design is). Areas that I know can be done but I have not found the doc for yet: - Rules to not page on events x,y,z if A is down - Aggregation -- I would like to create a test that is the OR of several tests and display it as another column. Clicking on that column takes you to a page of the individual tests. Example: I have a number of DataDirect Network Controllers that I can poll and determine quite a few different errors. At first I tried a single DDN test and discovered I often missed a later important event becasue an earlier minor one had happened and I was ignoring the test. I have now separated the individual tests out (I currently have 9). A way to "macro" these together would be neat. -- Isaac Traxler AIX,Linux Admin Louisiana State University user-4dfb0dbf036e@xymon.invalid High Performance Computing XXX-XXX-XXXX LONI AIX Clusters AIX, Linux Support Storage and Infrastructure
list Jerald Sheets
I want to agree with elements of both Isaac & Paul's statements. In my environment, you cannot use anything but a command line to enter the environment. (high security, no GUI, only SSH port on nonstandard port). If I can no longer enter my environment and SSH to my Xymon host, I can no longer use it. We actually don't even use the generated web pages at all. I scrape files & push data around in the back end over listeners I've written and into disparate systems with dissimilar interfaces. Now what? If a database is in the offering, a way to both manage and dump that database would be of paramount importance, or we would have to write our own system. Sure, we've already pretty much done that (all in perl) to wrap all the cool stuff Xymon does with its clients and the daemon, and have highly customized it to an extremely secure environment, so we are the minority and I understand that. Just note that it does have an effect on the install base to remove funcitonality (i.e., adding in favor of a new way). This definitely kills things under various circumstances, and can eliminate users rather rapidly. What of the support files and documents, etc.? I have a customized Linux installation that runs just shy of 400M. The post-provisioning varies from 150-300M on top of that for a very small, very tight installation. Adding more packages to support a "new and improved" Xymon might be more of an undertaking. I'd have to re-roll my provisioning image, write puppet manifests/classes/facts to support the new packages. I'd have to do a deployment of all the new packages across over 10,000 hosts, and then deploy, without downtime, without operational interference. I guess that what I'm trying to say is that large heterogenous environments would be seriously impacted. Thank you SO much Henrik for the amazing tool you've produced. It's an outstanding effort, and I, for one, am eternally grateful at all the hard work and years you've put into it. Jerald Sheets Apple, Inc.
▸
On Jun 14, 2012, at 11:55 AM, Isaac W Traxler wrote:
Some folks have taken this thread to be a general what-if you could do this, so I have joined that group. I suspect some of the things I want already exist and Ihave not dicovered them yet or am to obtuse to figure out. Comments about flat files vs GUI: - Flat files certainly offer a lot of options - A syntax checker would be nice - A GUI might attract some folks, but it is more likely to remove flexibility for the rest of us - Like others, I have been looking at generating the hosts.cfg file from data in racktables and additional custom tables - Most of the current Xymon users chose Xymon because of its simplicity, light weight, flexible configuration and its extensibility -- would a change create a fork? Database comments: - What impact will it make on resources (xymon is frugral) - What about databse crashes/recovery - Will it improve performance - Does it replace text files - How many additional packages must be installed Side note: I started monitoring with Big Brother many years ago. I made efforts with Nagios and Zabbix. I cam back to Xymon. Xymon is not perfect. But it is light weight (Zabbix out ran my resources with a couple of dozen machines monitorred). It lives in a push or pull model (I am often amazed at how differently people implement Xymon). Xymon will do just about anything (I just need to be bright enough to write a script). Features that I would like: - better snmp support (some devices are basically only snmp) - recent non-green page (only events that have happened in last configurable time period) - disk graphs -- a way to indicate disk size changed (kind of like the arrows on a stock graph to indicate a split) - column view -- the ability to pick 1 (maybe more columns) and see all machines for only that column - A good way to handle events. Events happen and can easily generate a Xymon message. A good, consistent method for those events to go away, reset to green, or something would be nice. In particular, I (and others) have spent lots of time processing syslog messages. I could generate dozens of messages from syslog events. Unfortunately, most do not have a follow event to indicate the first event is over. - Web content that was happy with iPhone/iPad - Alternate web front end/dashboard. When trying to convince others of the value of Xymon I get beat up over the "dated" web look more than I the lack of GUI config or lack of database technology (in fairness I often hear folks complain about the lack of a database until the see how fast, efficient and low memory the Xymon design is). Areas that I know can be done but I have not found the doc for yet: - Rules to not page on events x,y,z if A is down - Aggregation -- I would like to create a test that is the OR of several tests and display it as another column. Clicking on that column takes you to a page of the individual tests. Example: I have a number of DataDirect Network Controllers that I can poll and determine quite a few different errors. At first I tried a single DDN test and discovered I often missed a later important event becasue an earlier minor one had happened and I was ignoring the test. I have now separated the individual tests out (I currently have 9). A way to "macro" these together would be neat. -- Isaac Traxler AIX,Linux Admin Louisiana State University user-4dfb0dbf036e@xymon.invalid High Performance Computing XXX-XXX-XXXX LONI AIX Clusters AIX, Linux Support Storage and Infrastructure
list Sean Clark
That is how I handle it now - ext script runs every 5m checking to see if change in database -- If change in database, write out alerts.cfg, analysis.cfg, hosts.cfg -- Sean Clark Sr. Engineer, Software ATG Network Operations & Planning Integrated Regional OSS <http://www.twcable.com/DepartmentOverview/AdvancedTechnologyGroup/ATG/NOP/ OSS/Network.aspx> user-2db5fbcae9a7@xymon.invalid <mailto:user-2db5fbcae9a7@xymon.invalid> devaudio <aim://devaudio> <mailto:user-2db5fbcae9a7@xymon.invalid> Cell: (XXX) XXX-XXXX
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On 6/14/12 2:22 AM, "Vernon Everett" <user-b3f8dacb72c8@xymon.invalid> wrote:
I hate to sound greedy, but is there a way to have the best of both worlds? Assume a text config file that could be imported into a database table. This table could be re-exported from the table to text file. Changes to the table, (edited via the GUI) trigger an export to text file. Changes detected in the text file are either automagically imported into the table, or will need to be manually imported into the database with an import tool. Haven't decided which is better yet, but I am leaning towards a manual import. Edit files, run cfg-import. How to ensure simultanious edits are not occurring is left as an exercise for the reader :-) Right now, unless you use some form of version control, concurrent edits are possible anyway, so we would be no worse off. The advantage of this system is that the configs done using the GUI will automatically be sanity checked. (I hope) In theory the GUI shouldn't allow a config change that is completely wrong. But, by importing the text file, into a database, the text file will need to be sanity checked, probably using the same routine, and will be rejected if it is obviously wrong too. And it satisfies the grey-beards and the click-monkeys. Two ways to edit. The best of both worlds. Regards Vernon On 14/06/2012, Henrik Størner <user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid> wrote:Hi, in another mail thread, another monitoring tool (Zenoss) was mentioned
which had the advantage of ³no hand editing of config files².
▸
Text based config files have their ups and downs - they are infinitely flexible and can adapt to all sorts of weird ways of defining your setup, but it is also easier to "get it wrong" and put something in there which doesn't work. Even happens to me occasionally. It's the age-old debate over whether something is "powerful" or "dangerous". I am currently working on the next Xymon version (except I've been swamped with for-pay work the past couple of months ... and a hefty round of lay-offs in other departments than mine). This involves a complete rewrite of the network testing tool, and for this rewrite I've started using an SQLite database for storing some intermediate data used by the network tester, instead of keeping it in a bunch of temporary text-files. And it has made me consider the idea of using a database for storing at least some of the configuration - first of all the hosts.cfg configuration of hosts, IP-adresses and network tests. This would make some things simpler, others a bit more complex - "xymongrep", for instance - but would also make it a lot easier to provide a GUI for managing what hosts are being monitored. This is not going to happen anytime soon, but since the subject was up in the air - what do you think about it ? Is it a major problem that Xymon has all configuration in text files ? How many of you auto-generate the Xymon config by extracting the information from a database already ? Just looking for some feedback... Regards, Henrik-- "While it is futile to try to eliminate risk, and questionable to try to minimize it, it is essential that the risks taken be the right risks. " - Peter F. Drucker
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list Carl Inglis
Carl Inglis Systems Administrator Rakon UK Limited Dowsett House, Sadler Road, Lincoln LN6 3RS, United Kingdom Tel: +XX (X)XXXX XXXXXX | Fax:+XX (X) XXXX XXXXXX | Mob: +44 (0) 7786 552915 user-96685bdc864b@xymon.invalid | www.rakon.com THE QUEENS AWARDS FOR ENTERPRISE 2012 Rakon UK Ltd This message together with any attachments contains confidential information and may be subject to privilege. If you are not the intended recipient you may not distribute it in any way, you must notify the sender immediately and delete any copies of the message along with its attachments. Rakon UK Ltd is a limited company registered in England and Wales. Registered Office: Dowsett House, Sadler Road, Lincoln LN6 3RS Company Registration Number: 5128090. Please be aware that Rakon UK Limited may monitor email traffic data including the date, time, subject line, sender and recipients for the purposes of security and usage monitoring. Automated monitoring systems may also be applied to ascertain whether incoming/outgoing emails are likely to contain viruses, other destructive devices or inappropriate content.
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-----Original Message-----
From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Root, Paul
Sent: 14 June 2012 16:49
To: 'Ulric Eriksson'; xymon at xymon.com
Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files
User friendly is a relative term. Forcing the use of a GUI is slow and not friendly to me.
My Xymon monitoring box doesn't even have a GUI installed.
▸
[snip]
Whatever gui that we come up with I hope it has either bulk entry page, or a parser/upload function from a flat file.
Personally I back the "either/or" view - one can use a GUI to create the files if one wishes, or one can directly edit the files, but the program does not *require* one to use a GUI to manage it. Regards, Carl
list Ulric Eriksson
Carl Inglis skrev 2012-06-14 23:01:
Personally I back the "either/or" view - one can use a GUI to create the files if one wishes, or one can directly edit the files, but the program does not *require* one to use a GUI to manage it.
Of course, using a database as a back end allows creating *any* user interface, including but not limited to gui and text. And bulk loading is certainly more convenient, secure and reliable using a database than text files. Opsview, which is basically Nagios with a less user-hostile front end, has a REST interface to its configuration. That way, when a new server is deployed it can automatically be added to the monitoring system. Ulric
list Stef Coene
(maybe this was already proposed ...) Some versions ago, the names of the config files were changed. And if I'm not mistaken, Henrik has plans to change all the config ans split the bb-hosts in a web-layout config and a wha-to-monitor config. Why not change to a config file layout that can be changed manually and easy parsed for a GUI? Like the .ini format. I know the .ini format is limited to what you can do, but it's easy to edit by hand and there are lots of parsing modules for php/perl/C/.... available. We use .ini files for your internal scripts. These files are edited by hand, parsed with perl/php, generated with perl, ... And that works very wel. Stef
list Jeremy Laidman
Both Postfix and AMaViS support per-table specification of the storage/retrieval mechanism. I would like to be able to select which elements (none, some or all) are in a database. For example: xymonserver.cfg: HOSTSCFG="$XYMONHOME/etc/hosts.cfg" ANALYSISCFG="bdb:/var/lib/analysis.cfg" GRAPHSCFG="ldap:user at server:3306:graphtable" Of course this probably makes little sense for analysis.cfg and graphs.cfg. But just to give the idea of a per-file option where it might make sense. Perhaps this would be useful for some: HOSTSCFG="$XYMONHOME/etc/hosts.cfg sqlite:/var/lib/hosts.sqlite" This would get hosts (if any) from hosts.cfg, and then go looking in the database if nothing found. For the record, I prefer text files. Cheers Jeremy
list Bruce White
Here's my $.02 worth and hope I'm not to late to contribute: 1) I haven't seen one person mention that adding a DB back end might reduce the flexibility to port Xymon to the next O/S or platform. 2) I agree with those who find forcing a GUI on me is not an option I like. I have been using vi/sed for 20 years and it is amazing what you can do without having to repeat a series of mouse clicks for 300 entries in a file. I would prefer a "use it if you like approach." As someone else noted, they didn't even use the GUI currently provided for the "Critical Systems" view. I too use scripts to produce what I want/need and ignore that GUI. 3) I too have manipulated the current text files to allow Xymon to monitor things which don't necessarily fit what the original developer intended. Keeping text files does not remove those possibilities. Adding a specific editor with a syntax checker might. 4) I don't want to make changing configurations too easy. I have had other members of the team already screw things up. Opening it to almost anyone with a keyboard and a mouse might mean a PHB will force me to allow the unknowing to make updates. After they are done, I will then have the chore to clean it up. 5) Finally, I have scripts which have been running under BB and now Xymon since before things like xymongrep existed. Getting rid of the text files would mean those would all have to be converted/migrated so they would continue to work. I also have scripts to do things like add new hosts to the alerts.cfg file quickly and adjust some entries in the anaylsis.cfg file. Those might become useless and force me to sit at a screen and repeat mouse clicks until I'm finished. I think Josh's very first reply stated it the best, "If it's not Broke, Don't fix it!" Thanks for the input, Bruce Bruce White Senior Enterprise Systems Engineer | Phone: X-XXX-XXX-XXXX | Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX | user-58f975e8bf9d@xymon.invalid | http://www.fellowes.com/ Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Fellowes, Inc.
list Lynn Osburn
Please add another vote for "don't force a change into what's working so well". Bruce White's incisive analysis (deleted for brevity) includes what seems to me to be the most salient point: "adding a DB back end might reduce the flexibility to port Xymon to the next O/S or platform" Thanks for bothering to ask the users, and carry on with the good work.
list Ulric Eriksson
White, Bruce skrev 2012-06-21 22:47:
1)I haven’t seen one person mention that adding a DB back end might reduce the flexibility to port Xymon to the next O/S or platform.
Probably because it wouldn't. Ulric
list Bruce White
How can you say that. Is the DB being used been ported already to O/S's which do not yet exist?
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Bruce White Senior Enterprise Systems Engineer | Phone: X-XXX-XXX-XXXX | Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX | user-58f975e8bf9d@xymon.invalid | http://www.fellowes.com/ Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Fellowes, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Ulric Eriksson Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 5:33 PM To: xymon at xymon.com Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files White, Bruce skrev 2012-06-21 22:47:
1)I haven’t seen one person mention that adding a DB back end might reduce the flexibility to port Xymon to the next O/S or platform.
Probably because it wouldn't. Ulric
list Mario Andre
Hello Henrik,
I use a mysql database to: 1)Parse all bb-host configuration 2)With my bb-hosts info into the mysql database I can generate some reports I have developed. I have some scripts that extract raw data from xymon and populate the DB daily and monthly. 3)I have in mysql all my hobbit-alerts.cfg data. I have a web based (php) to configure and update the config file.The information are classified as rules like in a firewall. 4)I log a more detailed information from the alerts/notifications on my database. 5)I have all or almost all of my bbwin.cfg thresholds stored in my database per server. 6) Daily and monthly I have reports of svcs,disks and uptime data updated and stored. 7)I generate capacity/trends reports using the list parsed from bb-hosts to mysql separated by projects/groups/type (php + mysql). Regards, Mario.
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On Fri, Jul 13, 2012 at 12:41 PM, White, Bruce <user-58f975e8bf9d@xymon.invalid>wrote:How can you say that. Is the DB being used been ported already to O/S's which do not yet exist? Bruce White Senior Enterprise Systems Engineer | Phone: X-XXX-XXX-XXXX | Fax: XXX-XXX-XXXX | user-58f975e8bf9d@xymon.invalid | http://www.fellowes.com/ Disclaimer: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential and protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the intended recipient or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you. Fellowes, Inc. -----Original Message----- From: xymon-bounces at xymon.com [mailto:xymon-bounces at xymon.com] On Behalf Of Ulric Eriksson Sent: Monday, June 25, 2012 5:33 PM To: xymon at xymon.com Subject: Re: [Xymon] Hand editing config files White, Bruce skrev 2012-06-21 22:47:1)I haven’t seen one person mention that adding a DB back end might reduce the flexibility to port Xymon to the next O/S or platform.Probably because it wouldn't. Ulric
list Ulric Eriksson
White, Bruce skrev 2012-07-13 17:41:
How can you say that. Is the DB being used been ported already to O/S's which do not yet exist?
I can say that because the host(s) running Xymon can send and receive text over tcp, and any computer that can do that can also communicate with a database either directly or (preferrably) through an abstraction library such as this one I wrote many years ago: http://freecode.com/projects/libsdb (There are others, I only picked that one because I know it allows any aplication to get database connectivity with very little effort.) There is no benefit to running the database on the same host as Xymon, for several obvious reasons. Ulric
list Xymon User in Richmond
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On Fri, July 13, 2012 16:27, Ulric Eriksson wrote:
There is no benefit to running the database on the same host as Xymon, for several obvious reasons.
I'm apparently too dense for the reasons to be obvious. It seems to me that the obvious benefit of having it on the same host is that he still has access to his configuration data in the event of a network issue on his path to what would otherwise be his database service.
list Ulric Eriksson
Xymon User in Richmond skrev 2012-07-14 00:11:
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On Fri, July 13, 2012 16:27, Ulric Eriksson wrote:There is no benefit to running the database on the same host as Xymon, for several obvious reasons.I'm apparently too dense for the reasons to be obvious. It seems to me that the obvious benefit of having it on the same host is that he still has access to his configuration data in the event of a network issue on his path to what would otherwise be his database service.
Here are a bunch of reasons that are obvious to me, at least: - Load distribution: do not burden a loaded xymon server with the additional burden of a database. - Compatibility: there are many, many database vendors and nobody wants xymon to be dependent on whatever platforms they choose to support. - Management: at least in larger organisations, there is usually a dba group responsible for running databases, a different skillset from running xymon. - Availability: many databases have clustering, replication and other features that maximize availability and minimize downtime. - Consistency: several xymon hosts can access the same data, which does away with rsync scripts and other ugly hacks to keep configuration in sync. I suggested in an earlier message that the configuration could be fetched from the database by the xymon hosts and cached locally in a format that can be used immediately by xymon, for example the exact same format that is used today. If the database becomes unavailable for any reason, all hosts would still have the last known configuration. Ulric