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dialup directive not implemented?

12 messages in this thread

list Mike Serra · Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:03:04 -0500 ·
Hi Hobbit users,
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
Thanks,
- Mike Serra
list Greg L Hubbard · Tue, 8 Aug 2006 09:14:28 -0500 ·
Mike,

I use "dialup" to flag a host that may or may not be there when I ping
it. If the host is not accessible, the status is clear instead of red.
Handy for test machines.  This dates back to Big Brother.  Could this be
what you are trying to use?

GLH
quoted from Mike Serra

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Serra [mailto:user-2f7c303fd748@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:03 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?

Hi Hobbit users,
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
Thanks,
- Mike Serra
list Mike Serra · Tue, 08 Aug 2006 09:39:56 -0500 ·
Hi Greg,
The bb-hosts man page has a description of a "dialup" tag in the way
that you are using it, in the section titled "Bbgen Display Options." 
But, there is also a later section called "Ping Test of Modembanks."  It
describes a directive of the form "dialup <hostname> <startIP>
<count>."  The idea is that you can do a ping test that goes clear
instead of red, but for a range of IP addresses, instead of just one
(and it appears the addresses do not need to have matching DNS
entries).  That is what I am trying to use.  I'm not sure I have the
syntax correct: can anyone out there using this explain where the dialup
tag goes in relation to the page tag, etc?
- ms
quoted from Greg L Hubbard


Hubbard, Greg L wrote:
Mike,

I use "dialup" to flag a host that may or may not be there when I ping
it. If the host is not accessible, the status is clear instead of red.
Handy for test machines.  This dates back to Big Brother.  Could this be
what you are trying to use?

GLH

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Serra [mailto:user-2f7c303fd748@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:03 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?

Hi Hobbit users,
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
Thanks,
- Mike Serra

list Mike Serra · Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:28:25 -0500 ·
OK, interesting discovery here.  It seems that the hostname given to the
dialup directive must be included elsewhere in bb-hosts.  Our modem bank
is on a host called xxx, and when I put xxx on its own page with the
dialup directive, bbgen goes yellow and complains "Confused: can't find
host xxx."  But when I add a prior, standard entry for xxx on another
page, the dialup directive works.  In a way this makes sense, because
normal bb-hosts entries are supposed to have an IP addr and a hostname,
but the dialup directive asks only for a hostname -- so how can it know
the address unless there has been a prior entry for that host?  So I
suppose this was the intended behavior, but still it seems like the
admin should be given the option not to include this host in another
page.  Anyway the problem is only half solved: the new dialup page
works, but it shows a row of yellow question mark bubbles, instead of
clear or green ones.  When clicked, these bubbles lead to a white
"Status not available" page.  Something else is wrong?
- ms
quoted from Mike Serra

Mike Serra wrote:
Hi Greg,
The bb-hosts man page has a description of a "dialup" tag in the way
that you are using it, in the section titled "Bbgen Display Options." 
But, there is also a later section called "Ping Test of Modembanks."  It
describes a directive of the form "dialup <hostname> <startIP>
<count>."  The idea is that you can do a ping test that goes clear
instead of red, but for a range of IP addresses, instead of just one
(and it appears the addresses do not need to have matching DNS
entries).  That is what I am trying to use.  I'm not sure I have the
syntax correct: can anyone out there using this explain where the dialup
tag goes in relation to the page tag, etc?
- ms


Hubbard, Greg L wrote:
  
Mike,

I use "dialup" to flag a host that may or may not be there when I ping
it. If the host is not accessible, the status is clear instead of red.
Handy for test machines.  This dates back to Big Brother.  Could this be
what you are trying to use?

GLH

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Serra [mailto:user-2f7c303fd748@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 9:03 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?

Hi Hobbit users,
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
Thanks,
- Mike Serra

list Henrik Størner · Tue, 8 Aug 2006 17:35:10 +0200 ·
quoted from Mike Serra
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:03:04AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
It was implemented some time ago, but I've had reports coming in over
the past couple of months that it doesn't work in the 4.2 test releases
that are out. I then asked if anyone was using it, because if not I'd 
prefer to just rip it out instead of trying to fix it - and so far
noone has stepped forward to say they really need it.

So ... do you need it ? If people want it, I'd really rather implement
it quite differently than the old BB implementation - as a normal
network test associated with a host, e.g.

    0.0.0.0   vpnpool.foo.com  # iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100


Regards,
Henrik
list Rich Smrcina · Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:37:33 -0500 ·
We use dialup on individual hosts, not in the way that Mike describes. If you're coming up with a different way to identify hosts that should not go red nor notify when they are down, that's fine, as long as the capability is still there.
quoted from Henrik Størner

Henrik Stoerner wrote:
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:03:04AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
It was implemented some time ago, but I've had reports coming in over
the past couple of months that it doesn't work in the 4.2 test releases
that are out. I then asked if anyone was using it, because if not I'd prefer to just rip it out instead of trying to fix it - and so far
noone has stepped forward to say they really need it.

So ... do you need it ? If people want it, I'd really rather implement
it quite differently than the old BB implementation - as a normal
network test associated with a host, e.g.

    0.0.0.0   vpnpool.foo.com  # iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100


Regards,
Henrik

-- 

Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Ans Service:  XXX-XXX-XXXX
user-61add9955ef9@xymon.invalid

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007
list Kent Brodie · Tue, 8 Aug 2006 10:48:04 -0500 ·
Agreed; we use "dialup" on individual hosts that go off a lot (for
example, on printers that departments insist on shutting down now and
then to conserve power).......    I do not use the complex form, simple
hosts only.

Kent C. Brodie - user-da7f7d5174c0@xymon.invalid
Department of Physiology
Medical College of Wisconsin
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
quoted from Rich Smrcina
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Smrcina [mailto:user-cf452ff334e0@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:38 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: Re: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?

We use dialup on individual hosts, not in the way that Mike describes. 
If you're coming up with a different way to identify hosts that should 
not go red nor notify when they are down, that's fine, as long as the 
capability is still there.

Henrik Stoerner wrote:
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:03:04AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts,
the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.
Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we
can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that
could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as
if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
It was implemented some time ago, but I've had reports coming in over
the past couple of months that it doesn't work in the 4.2 test
releases
that are out. I then asked if anyone was using it, because if not I'd 
prefer to just rip it out instead of trying to fix it - and so far
noone has stepped forward to say they really need it.

So ... do you need it ? If people want it, I'd really rather implement
it quite differently than the old BB implementation - as a normal
network test associated with a host, e.g.

    0.0.0.0   vpnpool.foo.com  # iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100


Regards,
Henrik

-- 
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Ans Service:  XXX-XXX-XXXX
user-61add9955ef9@xymon.invalid

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007
list Craig Whilding · Tue, 8 Aug 2006 16:51:40 +0100 ·
Same here. In some cases it's used to confiscate machines off developer
teams that arent utilising them enough ;).

Craig
quoted from Kent Brodie

-----Original Message-----
From: Brodie, Kent [mailto:user-8fbf1c81e97c@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: 08 August 2006 16:48
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: RE: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?

Agreed; we use "dialup" on individual hosts that go off a lot (for
example, on printers that departments insist on shutting down now and
then to conserve power).......    I do not use the complex form, simple
hosts only.

Kent C. Brodie - user-da7f7d5174c0@xymon.invalid
Department of Physiology
Medical College of Wisconsin
(XXX) XXX-XXXX
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich Smrcina [mailto:user-cf452ff334e0@xymon.invalid] 
Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2006 10:38 AM
To: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Subject: Re: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?

We use dialup on individual hosts, not in the way that Mike describes. 
If you're coming up with a different way to identify hosts that should 
not go red nor notify when they are down, that's fine, as long as the 
capability is still there.

Henrik Stoerner wrote:
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:03:04AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts,
the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.
Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we
can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that
could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as
if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
It was implemented some time ago, but I've had reports coming in over
the past couple of months that it doesn't work in the 4.2 test
releases
that are out. I then asked if anyone was using it, because if not I'd 
prefer to just rip it out instead of trying to fix it - and so far
noone has stepped forward to say they really need it.

So ... do you need it ? If people want it, I'd really rather implement
it quite differently than the old BB implementation - as a normal
network test associated with a host, e.g.

    0.0.0.0   vpnpool.foo.com  # iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100


Regards,
Henrik

-- 
Rich Smrcina
VM Assist, Inc.
Phone: XXX-XXX-XXXX
Ans Service:  XXX-XXX-XXXX
user-61add9955ef9@xymon.invalid

Catch the WAVV!  http://www.wavv.org
WAVV 2007 - Green Bay, WI - May 18-22, 2007
list Mike Serra · Tue, 08 Aug 2006 10:57:41 -0500 ·
(heh) Sorry, I thought I had searched the archives thoroughly before
asking about this, but I somehow missed the earlier extensive
discussion.  My apologies.  At any rate it seems like it would be
useful; we're interested in it for our modem pool, and I've seen people
in mailing lists (for BB?) who found other uses, like monitoring which
desktop machines in the office are up, etc.  But making it into a normal
network test associated with a host has one confusing aspect -- why
should it be associated with a host?  In fact the old BB syntax called
for a "hostname," but I can't think what it could want it for except as
a label to put on the display webpage.  But other than that confusion,
the old syntax makes sense.
- ms
quoted from Craig Whilding


Henrik Stoerner wrote:
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:03:04AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:

  
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the
one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage
directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our
sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this
directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't
get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could
make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if
they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using
hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
    
It was implemented some time ago, but I've had reports coming in over
the past couple of months that it doesn't work in the 4.2 test releases
that are out. I then asked if anyone was using it, because if not I'd 
prefer to just rip it out instead of trying to fix it - and so far
noone has stepped forward to say they really need it.

So ... do you need it ? If people want it, I'd really rather implement
it quite differently than the old BB implementation - as a normal
network test associated with a host, e.g.

    0.0.0.0   vpnpool.foo.com  # iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100


Regards,
Henrik

list Henrik Størner · Tue, 8 Aug 2006 18:28:09 +0200 ·
quoted from Mike Serra
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 10:57:41AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
(heh) Sorry, I thought I had searched the archives thoroughly before
asking about this, but I somehow missed the earlier extensive
discussion.  My apologies.  At any rate it seems like it would be
useful; we're interested in it for our modem pool, and I've seen people
in mailing lists (for BB?) who found other uses, like monitoring which
desktop machines in the office are up, etc.  But making it into a normal
network test associated with a host has one confusing aspect -- why
should it be associated with a host?  
"Host" is not the right word. The lines in the bb-hosts files really
need not be real hosts, they are just a kind of container for the
various tests we run. A label so you can recognize it on the webpage.
E.g. you could have a line in the bb-hosts file with the "www.microsoft.com" 
hostname - but in reality, this is a virtual thing because that website is 
physically being handled by many hosts.
quoted from Mike Serra

In fact the old BB syntax called for a "hostname," but I can't think what 
it could want it for except as a label to put on the display webpage.  
Exactly.
But other than that confusion, the old syntax makes sense.
Well, I don't agree :-) I think the old syntax is confusing - there's a
"dialup" property that you can apply to individual hosts, and it is
something *completely* different when you use the "dialup" modem-pool 
identifier.


For the upcoming 4.2 release, I've added this to the release notes:

   Modem-bank testing ("dialup" host definition) does not work
   ===========================================================
   Previous versions of Hobbit supported the Big Brother "dialup"
   host definition for pinging a range of IP-adresses, e.g. a
   modem-bank or a pool of IP-adresses handed out by a DHCP server.
   This feature is not supported in Hobbit 4.2, but may re-appear
   in a different form in a later version.
   (Note: This has nothing to do with the "dialup" directive
   which can be applied to individual hosts, to make them go
   clear when they are offline instead of red or purple).

That at least makes it clear that it doesn't work. How it will be
implemented later is then up for discussion.


Regards,
Henrik
list Mike Serra · Tue, 08 Aug 2006 11:35:33 -0500 ·
Ah!  That clears everything up nicely.  Thanks for your help.
quoted from Henrik Størner
- ms

Henrik Stoerner wrote:
On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 10:57:41AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
  
(heh) Sorry, I thought I had searched the archives thoroughly before
asking about this, but I somehow missed the earlier extensive
discussion.  My apologies.  At any rate it seems like it would be
useful; we're interested in it for our modem pool, and I've seen people
in mailing lists (for BB?) who found other uses, like monitoring which
desktop machines in the office are up, etc.  But making it into a normal
network test associated with a host has one confusing aspect -- why
should it be associated with a host?  
    
"Host" is not the right word. The lines in the bb-hosts files really
need not be real hosts, they are just a kind of container for the
various tests we run. A label so you can recognize it on the webpage.
E.g. you could have a line in the bb-hosts file with the "www.microsoft.com" 
hostname - but in reality, this is a virtual thing because that website is 
physically being handled by many hosts.

In fact the old BB syntax called for a "hostname," but I can't think what 
it could want it for except as a label to put on the display webpage.  
    
Exactly.

  
But other than that confusion, the old syntax makes sense.
    
Well, I don't agree :-) I think the old syntax is confusing - there's a
"dialup" property that you can apply to individual hosts, and it is
something *completely* different when you use the "dialup" modem-pool 
identifier.


For the upcoming 4.2 release, I've added this to the release notes:

   Modem-bank testing ("dialup" host definition) does not work
   ===========================================================
   Previous versions of Hobbit supported the Big Brother "dialup"
   host definition for pinging a range of IP-adresses, e.g. a
   modem-bank or a pool of IP-adresses handed out by a DHCP server.
   This feature is not supported in Hobbit 4.2, but may re-appear
   in a different form in a later version.
   (Note: This has nothing to do with the "dialup" directive
   which can be applied to individual hosts, to make them go
   clear when they are offline instead of red or purple).

That at least makes it clear that it doesn't work. How it will be
implemented later is then up for discussion.


Regards,
Henrik

list Francesco Duranti · Tue, 8 Aug 2006 20:02:40 +0200 ·
Hi all, I'm also in need to a "iprange" test mostly for modem banks and vpn connected users...
This kind of syntax will be much better then the old dialup style. If it will become a normal test with a normal output it could be nice to also have something like number of reachable/unreachable host in rrd format so that we can see how many users are connecting during the day...

Another think interesting (don't know how many people will use it or need it) can be something like
0.0.0.0 vpnpool.foo.com # [!]iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100,[yellow number],[red number]
So it can also be used to alert when for example you've only 5 connection available out of 100 or the reverse of this for example if of your 10 domain controller/webserver/dns server only 2 are up and running


-----Messaggio originale-----
Da: Henrik Stoerner [mailto:user-ce4a2c883f75@xymon.invalid] Inviato: martedì 8 agosto 2006 17.35
A: user-ae9b8668bcde@xymon.invalid
Oggetto: Re: [hobbit] dialup directive not implemented?
quoted from Mike Serra

On Tue, Aug 08, 2006 at 09:03:04AM -0500, Mike Serra wrote:
I have a simple question about the "dialup" directive in bb-hosts, the one that is supposed to come immediately after a page or subpage directive, and is used to ping a range of hosts, like a modem pool.  Our sysadmin tells me that he read (in a man page online?) that this directive is not implemented.  And it's acting like it isn't: we can't get it to do anything, despite trying every possible syntax that could make sense.  But on the other hand people online talk about this as if they're using it just fine.  So -- is it implemented?  We are using hobbit version 4.2-beta-20060605.
It was implemented some time ago, but I've had reports coming in over the past couple of months that it doesn't work in the 4.2 test releases that are out. I then asked if anyone was using it, because if not I'd prefer to just rip it out instead of trying to fix it - and so far noone has stepped forward to say they really need it.

So ... do you need it ? If people want it, I'd really rather implement it quite differently than the old BB implementation - as a normal network test associated with a host, e.g.

    0.0.0.0   vpnpool.foo.com  # iprange=172.16.1.1-172.16.1.100


Regards,
Henrik